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Awful FOH bass tone

#21
BWB said:
You answered your own question. DI sucks. I disable the direct out on my amps so they can't use it. When they ask me to plug into a direct box right off the bass I refuse. You can't get your tone out of anything but the cabinet being mic'd.
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dont spew in this age old argument of DI sucks and MIC is better. this just proves that you are stubborn and so far stuck up your ass that you refuse to work with people who can actually do their job. im sorry but this argument really pisses me off...(can you tell)

everyone has their own sound and own feel of what they like, personally i prefer to use MY SANSAMP which has a balanced XLR out, which i could argue to you is better than your crappy micing the bass amp. and we will get no where...this way i know that if my amp craps out that i have great tone going to FOH and then i can use whatever amp i want and get great tone going there and adjust to the characteristic of each amp. your statement is a false representation of reality.

that being said...as jaywa said it could be a phasing issue too. i never thought of that...
 
#22
jaywa said:
There could also be phase cancellation going on at one or both of the following points:

1) between the subs (i.e., +1 to the suggestion to "cluster" the subs in the middle vs. each side of the stage).

2) between the P.A. and the bass cabinet onstage. How you would find this out is, get a wireless unit, go out to the FOH and start playing with your amp turned relatively low, and then keep turning the amp up and if the volume / quality of the bass in FOH gets less as you turn up your stage amp, there's a good chance cancellation is going on. I would almost bet money this is at least part of the problem, especially in the smaller rooms.
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QFT^. Phase cancellation was my first thought too...
You enter a new world of complexity once you discover you can't just add up sounds without penalty ...
 
#23
As I suggested in my earlier posting: if pre-recorded music played back through the PA sounds good, with a full bottom end, then the PA setup is not the issue. Taking a methodical approach to troubleshooting is much more effective than chasing red herrings.

1 - make sure the PA sounds good, with solid low frequency response, when playing back pre-recorded music. If it doesn't, fix the PA first

2 - check the signal coming in from the DI, make sure it's not clipping, set the gain properly

3 - with a pre-EQ DI signal, and the EQ flat on the channel strip, make sure that there isn't a high pass filter set on the channel strip.

4 - start messing with the EQ to dial in the sound. If you can't get an acceptable sound with the pre-EQ DI, then consider switching to post-EQ, but I don't recommend that. Instead, I'd suggest a Sansamp or other type of tone shaping DI so you can leave your amp settings as-is and merely tweak the EQ sent to FOH.
 
#24
seperating the subwoofers is a bad idea. they cancel each other out for most of the room, taking punch from your mix. so naturally you turn up louder, but doesnt help much

look it up
 
#26
Thanks for all your help, guys. I'll take a look at all of this at our next show on 10/6. As for the entire system being set up and operated poorly, everything else sounds great. The bass drum is low, punchy and tight. The guitar is nice and saturated and crisp. Even out vocals have great tone. My bass tone is just God-awful.
 
#27
BWB said:
You answered your own question. DI sucks. I disable the direct out on my amps so they can't use it. When they ask me to plug into a direct box right off the bass I refuse. You can't get your tone out of anything but the cabinet being mic'd.

As copied from another thread in this forum posted by a sound-man:
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BWB,

I appreciate the quote, however, in context, I was speaking from point of expediency and experience. I ordinarily do not make a move on someone else's gear. The typical scenario where I'm skipping the amp's DI...
It's a "my first amp" amp.
From personal use, I know the DI is chancy...(crate amps, anyone?)
There are 10 bands tonight, and everyone gets the mic (c'mon people, we are 90 minutes behind schedule)

If you've worked with a DI, like the DI...then simply use the DI. Just fix yer awful FOH tone already, the neighbors are complaining.
 
#30
I use Line 6 Gear and my LD400 (which is a modelling amp), has a built-in DI which sends the modelled sound to the desk, so no need for miking up and the sound guy gets a good bass sound which all he has to do is pretty much just amplify!
 
#31
Baker69 said:
I use Line 6 Gear and my LD400 (which is a modelling amp), has a built-in DI which sends the modelled sound to the desk, so no need for miking up and the sound guy gets a good bass sound which all he has to do is pretty much just amplify!
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+1
Those amps sound great, and the direct outs are easily recording-quality.
 
#32
JimmyM said:
I love micing. But you need a good mic, or you need two channels, one DI and one mic (a 57 or 58 is excellent in these situations). Use the DI for the lows below 100hz and the mic for everything else. You can try the DI post-EQ as well. But most SS DI's sound way too clean and banjo-ey to me. I feel your pain because until I got a REDDI, I hated DI's (highly recommended, BTW), but using a mic isn't as hard to deal with as you think it is.
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This...
 
#33
Communication is the key. When I am on bass, I ASK the guy who is setting the board if he needs/wants something different to help out front. If I am behind the board, I TELL the bass player what I need to help out front. Just talk and it will work itself out.

The only equipment you need to fix the problem is that hole in the bottom of your face and those two other holes on the side of your head.
 
#34
bassmatt4792 said:
Thanks for all your help, guys. I'll take a look at all of this at our next show on 10/6. As for the entire system being set up and operated poorly, everything else sounds great. The bass drum is low, punchy and tight. The guitar is nice and saturated and crisp. Even out vocals have great tone. My bass tone is just God-awful.
Click to expand...

Cluster the subs together and put them next to a wall or in a corner. It may not "look right", but last I checked, we don't listen with our eyes. Set your amp DI to "post -eq". Start with your channel strip flat and tweak from there, again using your ears, not eyes. It may be a good thing to turn the bass knob down a notch, even though you are playing a bass.
 
#35
Well, thanks for all the advice! I played around with mics on Friday night on my own, then tried DI with the post EQ button engaged. I didn't hear a whole lot of difference, so I didn't bring a mic to the show. All I have is an SM58, but that did a pretty good job at my house.
At the gig, I sound checked with pre-EQ then changed it post. Amazing difference. Then I fussed with the board EQ and put everything where I want it.
I might try a mic down the road, just because I have a cab that I paid money for, so why not use it for more than a personal monitor...
 

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