B-string low note reproduction

[matthewbrown]

I have started playing my Ibanez BTB33 Volo with a low B string; normally it uses a high C string, and that's how I've played it up to now. However, I've started using it for pit band gigs, thus the B string. In the practice room, at low volume, the B-string works fine except in the low range. I usually use an Eden EX112. The low range - below a low E -- at low volume is noticeably quieter. I'm just curious what might be the cause, and I don't know how to trouble shoot the issue. All I have are 12" speakers and the one five-string bass. Any thoughts?

 

[Ggaa]

Could be the single 12, could be the room, or the location of the amp. I only have 5ers w/lo B and 115 cabs, but have rehearsed with a Rumble 100 that was pretty even on the B(sounded better elevated some). Does it even up at higher volume? Did you get a fresh setup when you went to the B?

 

[96tbird]

Low B is going to suck up a lot of available watts just in shaking the ground with freqs humans can’t hear, robbing power from the freq of the note we can actually hear. Roll off the bass control on your amp, or use an eq pedal or HPF.

Pickup height may be causing a problem too since a B will vibrate in a wider path than the E string which you used to have in that slot, and the B may be swinging outside of the magnetic field… lowering the pickup may help in keeping the string in the magnetic field field. Experiment with that although I’m not sure if your bass has blade poles under those covers or round poles… blades wouldn’t suffer the magnetic problems like round poles which have a much smaller field.

 

[Ggaa]

Low B is going to suck up a lot of available watts just in shaking the ground with freqs humans can’t hear, robbing power from the freq of the note we can actually hear. Roll off the bass control on your amp, or use an eq pedal or HPF.

Pickup height may be causing a problem too since a B will vibrate in a wider path than the E string which you used to have in that slot, and the B may be swinging outside of the magnetic field… lowering the pickup may help in keeping the string in the magnetic field field. Experiment with that although I’m not sure if your bass has blade poles under those covers or round poles… blades wouldn’t suffer the magnetic problems like round poles which have a much smaller field.

+1 on HPF.

 

[matthewbrown]

Could be the single 12, could be the room, or the location of the amp. I only have 5ers w/lo B and 115 cabs, but have rehearsed with a Rumble 100 that was pretty even on the B(sounded better elevated some). Does it even up at higher volume? Did you get a fresh setup when you went to the B?

Yes, and that's a good question. The action was set very low -- so low that the g string buzzed on the highest notes, and I raised the saddle a bit to compensate.

 

[matthewbrown]

+1 on HPF.

Low B is going to suck up a lot of available watts just in shaking the ground with freqs humans can’t hear, robbing power from the freq of the note we can actually hear. Roll off the bass control on your amp, or use an eq pedal or HPF.

Pickup height may be causing a problem too since a B will vibrate in a wider path than the E string which you used to have in that slot, and the B may be swinging outside of the magnetic field… lowering the pickup may help in keeping the string in the magnetic field field. Experiment with that although I’m not sure if your bass has blade poles under those covers or round poles… blades wouldn’t suffer the magnetic problems like round poles which have a much smaller field.

I'll give these tips a try. Thanks!

 

[agedhorse]

Having a realistic expectation is also important. There’s only so much low frequency extension that’s available from a relatively small 112 cabinet that also has acceptable mid voicing for bass guitar.

Doesn’t matter if the cabinet is sealed or ported, the limitations still exist.

 

[Wasnex]

The low range - below a low E -- at low volume is noticeably quieter.

As @agedhorse said, there is only so much you can expect from a single 12".

Also keep in mind, it will sound different close to the cab than off in the distance.

 

[MCS4]

Right now I have a 4x10 on the floor on one side of my home office/music room and a 2x10 on a stand on another side. Using the same amp head and bass guitar, and played at the same relatively low general volume, the 4x10 on the floor reproduces notes lower than a low E noticeably louder and fuller. That is not intended to be a comment on 4x10s vs 2x10s generally so much as just one example of how one or a few differences in setup (different speaker cab, floor vs riser, possibly room placement) can make a noticeable difference even with many other variables equal.

 

[pbass2]

I play my fivers very often through a single GK Neo 112 in various venues. No issues with the B being inconsistent with the rest of the bass. That said strings and setup (including pickup height as mentioned) can really make a difference. I used to think I wouldn't want a B lighter than 130, but since going to a 125 B I have more clarity in the low lows and a more integrated sounding B with the rest of the bass. And that's with both my roundwound and my flatwound five strings. I also favor high-ish action for a very clean sound.

 

[agedhorse]

Right now I have a 4x10 on the floor on one side of my home office/music room and a 2x10 on a stand on another side. Using the same amp head and bass guitar, and played at the same relatively low general volume, the 4x10 on the floor reproduces notes lower than a low E noticeably louder and fuller. That is not intended to be a comment on 4x10s vs 2x10s generally so much as just one example of how one or a few differences in setup (different speaker cab, floor vs riser, possibly room placement) can make a noticeable difference even with many other variables equal.

Try putting the 410 on the stand and 210 on the floor and you may come to a different conclusion...

 

[MCS4]

Try putting the 410 on the stand and 210 on the floor and you may come to a different conclusion...

No question about it. That's partly what I meant when I said I wasn't intending to make a comment on 4x10s vs 2x10s generally. In this exact case, this particular 4x10 does tend to have a little more low end response than this particular 2x10 when everything is exactly equal, but in my current setup the stand and placement in the room are certainly factors as well. One of the reasons I like to have the 2x10 on the stand is to help to prevent the low end from traveling through the house as much when practicing with others at home.

 

[CoffeeLove]

I have started playing my Ibanez BTB33 Volo with a low B string; normally it uses a high C string, and that's how I've played it up to now. However, I've started using it for pit band gigs, thus the B string. In the practice room, at low volume, the B-string works fine except in the low range. I usually use an Eden EX112. The low range - below a low E -- at low volume is noticeably quieter. I'm just curious what might be the cause, and I don't know how to trouble shoot the issue. All I have are 12"

 

[pbass2]

IK HPF's get a lot of love here on TB, but I have tried one (and I play fivers almost exclusively these days) and honestly I was like..."meh". I suppose if your amp is carrying the room and you're really dialing that in with your rig alone I can see it more. But my amp is almost always just an onstage monitor, and FOH will HP the bass as needed. If the stage is getting boomy I just roll some lows off the amp.

 

[Guitalia]

The key phrase may be " In the practice room, at low volume . . ."

That (i.e., the Fletcher-Munson curve phenomenon) may be why the lower notes on the B string sound disproportionately quiet.

Same reason many hi-fi stereo amplifiers came equipped with a "loudness" switch for listening at low volume.

So you could try simply turning up your amp's bass control or use a separate multiband EQ or (as previously suggested) a HPF or some combination thereof.

 

[Gervais Cote]

To me, it takes two 112 cabs to get a decent low B. That’s what I witnessed when I added a second GK Neo IV 112 to my amp kit.

A good 4x10 or 115 is certainly very good as well.

 

[pbass2]

To me, it takes two 112 cabs to get a decent low B. That’s what I witnessed when I added a second GK Neo IV 112 to my amp kit.

A good 4x10 or 115 is certainly very good as well.

I use either a single GK Neo IV 112 or a GK Neo IV 212 (and on rarer occasions both cabs for 3x12). For me, if the gig is of a volume where the 1x12 is plenty, then I have enough going on down there for a solid B. Once it gets louder and I likely need the 2x12, then for sure, trying to push the 1x too much starts losing the ooomph down there.

 

[Gervais Cote]

I use either a single GK Neo IV 112 or a GK Neo IV 212 (and on rarer occasions both cabs for 3x12). For me, if the gig is of a volume where the 1x12 is plenty, then I have enough going on down there for a solid B. Once it gets louder and I likely need the 2x12, then for sure, trying to push the 1x too much starts losing the ooomph down there.

My drummer is loud so a low volume gig doesn’t exist for me.

 

[matthewbrown]

The key phrase may be " In the practice room, at low volume . . ."

That (i.e., the Fletcher-Munson curve phenomenon) may be why the lower notes on the B string sound disproportionately quiet.

Same reason many hi-fi stereo amplifiers came equipped with a "loudness" switch for listening at low volume.

So you could try simply turning up your amp's bass control or use a separate multiband EQ or (as previously suggested) a HPF or some combination thereof.

I think you're right, and that the low volume is definitely a factor. When I used the same bass strung this way playing The Prom in a large theater with drums, keys, guitar and trumpet, I didn't notice at the time that the B string was so much lower in volume below the E. I was using a different cab (GR aerotech), but still a 12" speaker.

 

[matthewbrown]

The key phrase may be " In the practice room, at low volume . . ."

That (i.e., the Fletcher-Munson curve phenomenon) may be why the lower notes on the B string sound disproportionately quiet.

Same reason many hi-fi stereo amplifiers came equipped with a "loudness" switch for listening at low volume.

So you could try simply turning up your amp's bass control or use a separate multiband EQ or (as previously suggested) a HPF or some combination thereof.

Yes, I think I have to work the eq a little differently than I do on my 4-strings, when I usually turn DOWN the volume and raise the bass up a little to make up the difference. I scoop the mids much of the time when I do this, because I'm often playing string bass parts on EB. The 5-string Ibanez is a very different instrument, especially at low volume levels.