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Backline/FOH volume question....

S

skydog

Nov 5, 2008
11
0
#1
I recently joined a classic rock/metal band. The guitar player
keeps harping about my stage volume. Sez that my bass
doesn't reach full volume until you get say 20 feet away.
We have put together a great crown/jbl pa with subs. I have
a GK 700 w/410 and 1/15 cab. I want to go direct with my
sansamp and use the GK on backline. He seems to a control
freak. It seems like I've heard of this being an old trick to
bury the bass in the mix. Is he blowing smoke up my T-bird?
 
#2
the guitarist keeps harping about your volume because hes A) a guitarist and B) a control freak. it does not take 20 feet to develop full volume, everyone knows it's 47.39 feet (sarcasm), it's bull. your low end develops more at certain distances from the rig due to boundaries bouncing waves. i suggest turning down, using one cab but tilted to your ear, or requesting you are sent through a monitor. any one or combination may help. use your mids to keep from getting buried, especially if you have a lacking soundman that just loves kick drum. good luck and god speed....
 
#3
Well, the guitarist is right, but only if your speaker is a folded horn cabinet (like the old Acoustic 1x18, and the Fender PS-400 cabinet). And that's due to the nature of the folded horn, not the bass's frequency. Besides, I play electric bass so while it's got low notes and its fundementals are low, the overtones that make it sound like an electric bass instead of a kick drum are highs.

Having sadi that, if the PA can do a good job of reproducing your bass out front, then it's really nice to use the amp as an on-stage monitor. Works great as long as EVERYONE on stage is able to self-control the stage volume.

jte
 
#4
What you guys say makes a lot of sense. We play mostly medium sizeclubs. We don't have a sound man, have very little time for a sound check,so it's pretty much on the fly. I know this is a recipe for disaster, but the DBX Driverack PA and the Berringer Feedback Destroyer are godsend's. Then it pretty much runs itself. We use stage monitors to set the levels. Since my GK is currently standalone, I hope running it through the PA will make things more seamless. We're trying to get that "Phil Spector Wall of Sound." Any thoughts?
 
#5
I'm always a big believer in lower stage volume IF you're using a decent PA. If you're cranked up on stage, it means your bass is coming through the vocal mics, possibly the drum mics, etc. which makes it a lot harder for the sound guy to do his job.

I understand wanting a good tone available on stage, it helps with getting yourself inspired to play a good set. But the volume of your amp, ESPECIALLY if you're running direct, has absolutely nothing to do with how you sound out front. There's no "trick" the guitarist is trying to pull on you other than keeping your bass from muddying up everybody else's mix.

I'm actually thinking about switching to a MarkBass or GK kickback combo precisely because I want something small and light to take to gigs with good PA systems so I can hear myself well at a low stage volume.
 
#6
Bottom line...many to most bands are to f&*king loud on stage. Spare me the "I can't play unless my pants are moving" thing. While you want to sound good, be inspired, etc. the FOH sound needs to be good. Your loud stage amp gets in the way. All you need is to be able to hear yourself. If you have bad monitors, turn your amp so it isn't messing with FOH. I put my amp in front of me facing back - like a monitor - because that's what your stage amp should be.

I'm not begrudging you your sweet ass rig, just stay out of the way of the FOH mix.

Flame away.

Let the flaming begin.
 
#9
according to an old article by billy shehan 2 amps linked with a y plug,one with all the treble cut and one with all the bass cut yields a lot more stage volume even if the hf amp is a small or even a guitar amp.i would think that the lf amp with all the treble cut would sound like mud but perhaps your guitar guy would hear what he needs......anyone tried this
 
#10
Billy Sheehan did that as a way to make a pseudo-biamped rig, not to gain volume. Sure, it's louder, but he's using two 810 cabs...that's why it's louder.

Skydog, whatever you do, put it in the PA. There's no good reason not to. Also, you might try cranking your upper mids a little bit. Right around 750-800 is where I can actually hear the bass notes. Too much makes it honky sounding, but with the right amount, it will just add more note definition in a mix without your having to turn up. And if you DI with the Sansamp, you can set the FOH mix to whatever it needs to be and make yourself happy with your rig without affecting FOH. But definitely put it in the PA. You'll be more present in the mix and you won't have to turn up nearly as loud to maintain a good mix in the house. This could actually start everyone else turning down as well, which means you'll be able to hear yourself better.
 
#11
Get a wireless or long cable and wander out front to hear what is actually going on, react accordingly...

In general lower stage volume is better. If the PA is up to it you really shouldn't need that 1x15 except as a way to raise the 4x10 up where you can hear it.

Small to medium club to me means small stage. Not big enough to justify both cabs and not enough room to get away from your cab. You end up on top of your rig and a lot of your sound just blows past your butt... In the past, in small places I've placed my rig on the opposite side of the stage and used a floor box (Bassbone, SA BDDI, Trace SM-7 stomp EQ/pre, etc) as a way to control it if I need a quick mid set adjustment.

Shouldn't be too much of an issue for you if you always run both cab's. That's more than I would both with in a lot of places through so ... you can also try a folding try stand or keyboard stand as a plaform for the 4x10 if you can't get away from it.
 

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