Backup vocals?

[the yeti]

I think some People are just bad singers Period, doesn't mean they are bad Musicians.

if they have an ear for music and the physical ability to vocalize, these "bad singers" should be able to sing if needed. it depends on the amount of work put into controlling the voice, same as any other instrument.

if a person doesn't have an ear for music it seems like a stretch to call them a musician.

i accept that a person may not have a pleasing vocal tone, i do not accept that a musician can't create a pitch with the instrument they were born with.

 

[the yeti]

I think it's always a good idea to sing, whether you are good or not, or will do it in public or only in the shower. I'm an awful singer, but I'll continue to do it. Regardless of marketability, or ability, it makes me a better musician.

I can't think of a much better instrument for building your ear than your voice. You have no visual cues like frets or keys to work with, so you have to rely solely on your ear. Singing in pitch requires a good ear, and you can use that same skill for learning new tunes. Singing harmony requires you have have an ear for harmony, and being able to hear harmony and work within it can only help you come up with better bass lines. Singing background vox will help your ear for dynamics by helping you blend in with the lead vocals, and that ear can translate into your playing more dynamically within the mix.

I can't see any reason why singing would hurt. Even if you have a hard time singing and playing, by practicing it and overcoming it, you become even more fluid on the bass because it's more in your muscle memory. Then when you are not singing, it's that much easier to play the bass. It's almost like weight training.

There's a reason why lots of music schools require voice and/or aural skills to get a dregree. It helps you become a better musician. Even if you don't plan on singing, it's still a good thing to spend time on. And the great thing about singing is that you can do it anywhere and doesn't cost you anything, which means you can always practice and improve on your musicianship.

should've read 1 post further. certainly better put than mine.

 

[MNAirHead]

Silly?!.. Why is it silly? I've played in cover Bands where I've not done Vocals, and I've played in others where I have been requested to do so (I can't stand singing myself, but thats beside the point)

Regarding the point of the Mentor, I know what that means, but that sort of opinion has always bothered me, as though it makes you less of a Bassist if you don't sing, like your Bass Playing comes Secondary.
For me, though I will try to contribute B.Vocals, I hate doing it (though I will try it if necessary) and I don't have a good Voice anyway. And I'm not alone as there are some good non-singing Bassists out there that I quite idolise anyway.
As I always say "I'd rather be a Monster Bassist who doesn't sing,rather than a Monster Bassist who does". Call that weird if you will, but thats what I feel.

Quite sincerely... it sounds like your singing confidence is lacking. If you can hear a note on a bass - you eventually can be trained to sing....

This is a band management forum. Quite sincerely it's poor band management to ignore the future date when a lead singer quits or is sick. A band with full vocals will normally have a marketing advantage.

The OP question was about IF he should try. It would be dishonest for any of us to suggest that he should ignore his band leader - IF he's in a good band, they will not make a fool of him, but may teach him a few things.

IT's about this time in the tread some goofball will list "Miller, Flea, etc"... then some other knuckle head will post Mark King, Geddy or Claypool.... Chances are we don't have many living legends posting on this forum - just we average folks trying to manage a well-oiled band that makes a bucks, pounds or euros.

 

[tZer]

Most bands don't need "the greatest bass player on earth" - but most bands do need people to fill out the vocals. Pick your battles. Get over your fear of singing. Take a lesson or two. If you have a good enough ear to learn songs by ear, you have a good enough ear to learn who to sing passably.

 

[john_g]

Man, Im in the same boat. I never sang in public, and never had to in all the bands I have been in over the 25 years of playing. Now, our keyboardist left and we had a huge gap in vocals and I started thinking about doing it. Im not great, but I think I could get to a good level but the hardest part for me playing and singing at the same time. It is a definite plus as a musician to be able to sing.

 

[Akami]

Sometimes it bothers me when I hear People say that Singing adds to your value as a Bassist, cos while I understand what that means, I hate the idea that it kinda makes your Bass Playing somehow, secondary or less-important.

I really enjoyed reading your description of the function the bass player carries in the band, but you're hearing it wrong when you think that anyone is thinking of a bassist as second-rate or anything of the like. It's just that anyone not playing horns in the band has a voice they're capable of using at the same time as they play their instrument and I think everyone should be able to sing, even if only backups. Besides, it's fun, makes the band sound fuller, and since everyone in the audience has a voice, vocals are the most personal instrument in our arsenal.

Quite sincerely... it sounds like your singing confidence is lacking. If you can hear a note on a bass - you eventually can be trained to sing....

This is a band management forum. Quite sincerely it's poor band management to ignore the future date when a lead singer quits or is sick. A band with full vocals will normally have a marketing advantage.

The OP question was about IF he should try. It would be dishonest for any of us to suggest that he should ignore his band leader - IF he's in a good band, they will not make a fool of him, but may teach him a few things.

+1

Anyone that can learn to play in a professional format can learn to sing as well. We are naturally born capable of both walking and singing, and anyone who can play a walking bass line can sing lead too.

It takes a while to learn to walk, it'll take a while to learn to sing.

 

[Dublin-Bass]

Quite sincerely... it sounds like your singing confidence is lacking. If you can hear a note on a bass - you eventually can be trained to sing....

Nope, its not lacking, I merely don't enjoy it. But as I said I will do it if necessary. And as I put it in another Post, yes everyone can do a bit of singing, but not everyone has the natural ability to be a good singing Vocalist.

This is a band management forum. Quite sincerely it's poor band management to ignore the future date when a lead singer quits or is sick. A band with full vocals will normally have a marketing advantage.

Just because a Singer Quits or is sick doesn't mean its going to be "Poor Management" if a future Gig is cancelled. Not every Band has "Full Vocals" as you put it, but that doesn't necesarily make them an "inferior" Band, and if a "Lead Singer quits or is sick" it doesn't always mean that the Gig is cancelled, but it can if it happens a Day before the Gig is due to take place.
That said what about if another Musician quits or is sick, is it "Poor Management" if the other can't play his/her instrument in his/her place? Not everyone can do that either.

The OP question was about IF he should try. It would be dishonest for any of us to suggest that he should ignore his band leader - IF he's in a good band, they will not make a fool of him, but may teach him a few things.

If you go back and read my own response to him then you will notice that at no point whatsoever did I suggest that he ignore his Bandleader, I actually said that he should give it a go, and if it works then great, if not then at least he'll have tried.

IT's about this time in the tread some goofball will list "Miller, Flea, etc"... then some other knuckle head will post Mark King, Geddy or Claypool.... Chances are we don't have many living legends posting on this forum - just we average folks trying to manage a well-oiled band that makes a bucks, pounds or euros.

I mentioned some well known Bassists in my response to the OP Post. Are you therefore referring to Me as a Goofball? Anyone who is a Bassist, and who is Registered here can Post and give their opinion. It only becomes a problem when someone is a prickly individual who likes to put forward his/her response to another Poster in an abrasive manner as if to make the other Poster feel like he/she is somehow "Inferior" or beneath the level of Dignity of the one doing the resonding. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

I'm not referring to you in my description here, but that said your response to me was somewhat unnecessarily abrasive, at least thats the impression I got from you.

 

[Dublin-Bass]

I really enjoyed reading your description of the function the bass player carries in the band, but you're hearing it wrong when you think that anyone is thinking of a bassist as second-rate or anything of the like. It's just that anyone not playing horns in the band has a voice they're capable of using at the same time as they play their instrument and I think everyone should be able to sing, even if only backups. Besides, it's fun, makes the band sound fuller, and since everyone in the audience has a voice, vocals are the most personal instrument in our arsenal.

Thanks for the compliment, but its not that I was hearing it wrong, as you put it, or that I think anyone is thinking of the Bassist as second Rate. Its more that the idea that in some Bands where you "have" to sing as well as play an Instrument, it somehow lessens your Valueability as a Musician if Singing is not something you normally do, or if its not something you were ever comfortable with, or if you tried and it was proved your Vocal capability is not good enough to compliment the others etc. And this can be for all Musicians, not just Bassists. Thats the point I was making there.

Out of interest what is your opinion on Bassists who don't sing as part of their performance?

Anyone that can learn to play in a professional format can learn to sing as well. We are naturally born capable of both walking and singing, and anyone who can play a walking bass line can sing lead too.

It takes a while to learn to walk, it'll take a while to learn to sing.

It is true what you say, but one thing that I believe is also the case is that, though anyone who is a musicians is capable of singing a bit, not everyone has the capability to be a natural Vocalist.
I once asked Bill Gibson, the Drummer/Backing Vocalist for Huey Lewis and the News, why their original Bassist, Mario Cipollina, was the only member of the Band who didn't sing, (Cipollina would be Backstage when then the rest of the Band did their Acapella Section) and in his response he said that Cipollina did originally sing in other Bands they were in together, but that "his Voice is not that good" as he put it, so they figured his image would be more striking to just stand there with his Sunglasses on and Play.

 

[Dublin-Bass]

if a person doesn't have an ear for music it seems like a stretch to call them a musician.

I never referred to anyone who does't have an Ear for Music to be called a Musician, so I agree with you there.

i accept that a person may not have a pleasing vocal tone, i do not accept that a musician can't create a pitch with the instrument they were born with.

I think that the latter part is what you feel I was referring to, I wasn't. I do agree with what you say there. If you are a Musician then of course you can create a Pitch with your Voice, but not every Musician has a good Vocal tone.
Some Musicians actually get away with having pretty lousy voices but being Lead Singers.

 

[Akami]

Out of interest what is your opinion on Bassists who don't sing as part of their performance?

I enjoy any band I go listen to, whether one or all sing, but just from a personal growth perspective, I like the idea of everyone at least having the capacity to sing, but I'm not a more=better, type of thinker, but rather, it's good to be able to do anything you want, rather than wish you could, thinker.

From another perspective point, I know what you mean about having fun and being able to get totally engrossed in your instrumental part, because that's one of my biggest joys at a jam session - be part of the background, and do a damn good job of it, never caring whether anyone notices me or not. On the other hand though, I love singing, and it's the most intimate thing I can offer the audience. There's something incredibly moving for me to see people smiling with tears rolling down their cheeks at the same time.

When I nudge friends towards working on their singing capabilities, it's that I want them to at least have it in their arsenal too, then if they choose to sing, it's their choice.

 

[hrodbert696]

No reason not to try. It will be good training, and if your singing improves, it makes you more of an asset to any band.

Hold off on singing live until you've picked up some confidence. The thing about a lot of those "ooohs" in the background is that they're often harmonies, and harder for a shaky singer to hit than the lead melody. Audiences will notice an out-of-key harmony more than they will a flubbed bass note.

You may want to start in with some shout-outs rather than a precise harmony. See if your band has any songs with stuff like the "Hey man!" on Suffragette City or the "Na na na na na" on Centerfold, or the "I get knocked down" from Tubthumping.

 

[tZer]

I want to address this thought;

...Its more that the idea that in some Bands where you "have" to sing as well as play an Instrument, it somehow lessens your Valueability as a Musician if Singing is not something you normally do, or if its not something you were ever comfortable with, or if you tried and it was proved your Vocal capability is not good enough to compliment the others etc. And this can be for all Musicians, not just Bassists. Thats the point I was making there...

I have another angle on this. Nobody can diminish your value as a musician. If the band requires more out of their players and you cannot or don't want to deliver that, then you diminish your usefulness to that band by either not have the skills required or not wanting to use those skills.

If a job demands that you be able to lift more than 50 pounds and type but you can't type, the job is not diminishing your value as a worker - the job requires that you do more than what you can or want to do. It's on you to define your own value to the band. You either can and will do what the job requires or you can't or won't.

 

[prd004]

Never understood bands thinking they sound better with mediocre/bad backing vocals as opposed to none.
Perhaps these are the bands that have average/mediocre lead vocals

 

[Vakmere]

Just do it!

You warned him. If you do manage to pull it off, your stock value goes up. If you don't he tells you to stop. No need to be embarrassed.

^^this

 

[jive1]

Just because a Singer Quits or is sick doesn't mean its going to be "Poor Management" if a future Gig is cancelled. Not every Band has "Full Vocals" as you put it, but that doesn't necesarily make them an "inferior" Band, and if a "Lead Singer quits or is sick" it doesn't always mean that the Gig is cancelled, but it can if it happens a Day before the Gig is due to take place.
That said what about if another Musician quits or is sick, is it "Poor Management" if the other can't play his/her instrument in his/her place? Not everyone can do that either.

The thing is that singing is not the same as playing an instrument. And playing in a cover band that plays all-niters is different from a band that does one set and goes home.

If you are playing all-niters, it's hard to find a singer with the endurance to sing 30-50 songs in a night. Even a good singer needs a break, and it's good to have another band member take on vocal duties. And if additional vocalist is competent, then the audience usually appreciates hearing a different vocal tone. If you're a busy band that plays 2 or more nights in a row, it's pretty much essential to have an additional vocalist to take the strain off the lead so they don't blow their voice after the first night.

Playing an instrument is different in terms of wear and illness. I can play bass 7 nights in a row, and not have it affect my bass playing. I can't do that with vocals, and I don't know any vocalist where singing that much won't put wear and tear on them and affect their tone. 2 nights in a row is too much for lots of vocalists. Also, in terms of illness, other than bodily injury or grave illness, I can't see it affecting my ability to play bass. Whereas a small cold, a sore throat, excessive fatigue, or allergies can greatly affect a vocalist's ability to sing.

If you believe in "the show must go on", then it's a good thing to have multiple vocalists in the band. And if you're working for an agency that values reliability (which one doesn't), then you will need to put assurances that the show will go on. 1-2 cancellations because the singer is sick can easily drop you to the bottom of the agency's list and have your bookings decrease. Agencies are in the business of working with flaky musicians, thus they are suspicious of any excuses, especially the 'sick' musician.

Aside from vocals helping you become a better musician, they can help your band keep on gigging if the chips are down.

 

[shadowmac]

IMO, a lot of the vocal issues many face is based on confidence. Create confidence by singing hard when you are alone, in the car, in the shower...wherever; don't be timid - don't hold back. The pipes are muscles that must be strengthened and refined through practice. You probably weren't a great bassist without practice; the same applies to any endeavor - give it some time and some honest effort. Sing scales utilizing all vowel sounds to increase your comfort and range. Record yourself to check your pitch...many naturally lean towards the flat vocally, which is a song killer.

You may learn to love singing.

Further, singing AND playing will make you a better player, because you'll have to be. It WILL improve your focus and dexterity. There is a snowball effect, once you get started, you're going to start rolling with it.

Good luck.

 

[djero44]

Yeah, try it, you might like it!

Shadowmac, you nailed my sentiments. Of all the people I hear say 'I can't sing', or, 'I have a bad voice', i'd bet half or more of them just don't have the confidence to really try. As you spoke, the voice is an instrument, and just because it doesn't sound so good naturally doesn't mean it won't be good after some honest effort. I think the vast majority of people could sing adequately or better if they put some time into it.

A lot of this is a cultural phenomenon. In almost every other culture in written history singing and music has been much more of a peoples birthright rather than something only 'musicians' do. It's a sad situation that there is such pressure and stigma about opening our voices up to each other.

I've been singing for almost twenty years now, and I still have confidence issues and head trips about it. Singing and playing is still not easy for me with many songs. I understand why a person wouldn't want to deal with the pressure of having to express themselves very truly with their voices, but it is also such a magical, personal, and powerful means of creating sound and music that, imo, it is very much worth doing the work.

Long story short, give it a go! Why not? Practice at home and at rehearsal until you sound good, make sure you feel comfortable with your band supporting you in the process, and you will have a valuable new skill, and as mentioned before, you may grow to love it.

 

[mixtapelove]

I'm with you. I flat out refused to sing for years, even backups. I only started doing that after a very long time.

I'm in an 80s band right now, so I pretty much have to contribute strong backups at the very least. I don't have a particularly good voice at all. I can sing in tune, but I have a squeaky, nasal kind of speaking voice that I am not crazy about, especially on tape.

What made me come around in the end was the idea that I'm doing covers, and sometimes being faithful to those cover tunes requires a bunch of us to fill in backups.

Try to get everyone else to sing with you.... I'm a heck of a lot more comfortable if two or three other people are singing with me. Then, try to listen to the harmony as a whole and not just as the sum of the parts.

 

[jonas_24112]

I sing lead and do backups, so I can't relate, but I do have a suggestion that I may catch a lot of grief for. Invest in a vocal harmonizer w/pitch correction. Yes, I said it......flame on!!

Anyways, I've got a Digitech Vocalist Live 4 that I mainly bought cause I thought it was cool and I could use it for doing acoustic stuff. I never use it when I sing lead in my current cover band, but I do use it SPARINGLY, on the right songs when I do backup. I don't use it for pitch correction, but it does have that option. I usually have time between songs I'm going to sing backup on to set the correct key and turn the harmonies on.

However, I will say this. This machine should be used sparingly. It will not make you a good singer, you still need to practice and figure your pitch the best you can. My typical setting is a 3rd above harmony and I set the harmony level about 1/2 to 2/3 the vocal mic setting.

I got mine for $100 used and use it on maybe 5 or 6 tunes out of 35.

Finally, my last tip. ALWAYS make sure you turn the harmonies OFF before you speak to the crowd between songs. Nothing sucks as much as showing the wizard from behind the curtain.

I'm currently toying with DI'ng the rhythm guitarists dry signal to the Vocalist so I don't have to set the key and it will harmonize to the chord changes. Then I can just step on the harmony pedal and away we goooooooooooo...........

 

[PopaWoody]

I think it's always a good idea to sing, whether you are good or not, or will do it in public or only in the shower. I'm an awful singer, but I'll continue to do it. Regardless of marketability, or ability, it makes me a better musician.

I can't think of a much better instrument for building your ear than your voice. You have no visual cues like frets or keys to work with, so you have to rely solely on your ear. Singing in pitch requires a good ear, and you can use that same skill for learning new tunes. Singing harmony requires you have have an ear for harmony, and being able to hear harmony and work within it can only help you come up with better bass lines. Singing background vox will help your ear for dynamics by helping you blend in with the lead vocals, and that ear can translate into your playing more dynamically within the mix.

I can't see any reason why singing would hurt. Even if you have a hard time singing and playing, by practicing it and overcoming it, you become even more fluid on the bass because it's more in your muscle memory. Then when you are not singing, it's that much easier to play the bass. It's almost like weight training.

There's a reason why lots of music schools require voice and/or aural skills to get a dregree. It helps you become a better musician. Even if you don't plan on singing, it's still a good thing to spend time on. And the great thing about singing is that you can do it anywhere and doesn't cost you anything, which means you can always practice and improve on your musicianship.

That's probably the best advice anyone can give the OP. harmonize any time you can. I have a 45 minute commute to work. I use that time to work on harmonizing with our set list material and for developing my voice. I have a hard time sticking to a key on my own, but can harmonize with others easily.

Of course having a baritone voice, and trying to sing higher stuff like most of our set list makes me flutter and drift off key. If I ever try to sing lead it will have to be stuff like LaGrange.

The best part though is I can feel myself improving through patience and practice. Maybe one day I'll be able to sing and play odd time signature stuff like Sting....yeah right.