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Bad buzz from a restring of the same strings

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#21
Hopkins said:
So my question to you is, how is telling the OP to change one string at a time helping? She was trying the flats on another bass not changing strings. So how exactly would she go about doing that one string at a time?

I'm not saying its a bad thing to change strings one string at a time, I simply said its unnecessary. I have never put a fresh set of strings on a guitar or bass, changing strings one string at a time or otherwise, and not gotten some minor fret buzz. Either way you are changing the tension applied to the neck. The myth is that you can damage the neck by removing the strings completely, which is simply not true. Just like the myth that you should only adjust your truss rod 1/4 turn and give it a day to settle before adjusting more.
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I was not responding to the OP, I think I made that pretty clear. I was responding to those who were jumping on people saying that it is a good thing to change strings one at a time.

If you read back the responses, people said that her issue would probably have been minimized by changing strings one at a time. This could have easily been achieved by doing a one string at a time string swap between the two basses, assuming both basses had strings. Even if the strings were very dissimilar, you would still be minimizing the changes in forces being applied on the neck and this minimizing the setup work after the fact.

In the end, even if the strings are dissimilar, there is still an advantage to doing a one-at-a-time string swap because you are still minimizing one variable in the change you are applying on your instrument.

I don't think people were out of line in expressing their opinions on what may have exacerbated the OP's situation.

By the way, the 1/4 turn thing is not a really myth or an absolute rule. It's a great precaution because when doing it, you have no real way to of knowing what condition the neck and rod are in, even if you built the bass yourself. Wood is not perfect, rods are not perfect, no matter what a manufacturer might lead you to believe. Do a 1/4 adjustment, then wait for it to settle, then reassess the situation. You could probably do more than a 1/4 adjustment nine times out of ten, but why risk a perfectly good neck on the assumption that nothing will go wrong.
 
#22
nshuman said:
I was not responding to the OP, I think I made that pretty clear. I was responding to those who were jumping on people saying that it is a good thing to change strings one at a time.

If you read back the responses, people said that her issue would probably have been minimized by changing strings one at a time. This could have easily been achieved by doing a one string at a time string swap between the two basses, assuming both basses had strings. Even if the strings were very dissimilar, you would still be minimizing the changes in forces being applied on the neck and this minimizing the setup work after the fact.

In the end, even if the strings are dissimilar, there is still an advantage to doing a one-at-a-time string swap because you are still minimizing one variable in the change you are applying on your instrument.

I don't think people were out of line in expressing their opinions on what may have exacerbated the OP's situation.

By the way, the 1/4 turn thing is not a really myth or an absolute rule. It's a great precaution because when doing it, you have no real way to of knowing what condition the neck and rod are in, even if you built the bass yourself. Wood is not perfect, rods are not perfect, no matter what a manufacturer might lead you to believe. Do a 1/4 adjustment, then wait for it to settle, then reassess the situation. You could probably do more than a 1/4 adjustment nine times out of ten, but why risk a perfectly good neck on the assumption that nothing will go wrong.
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I have turned a truss rod over a turn and a half, and I have loosed truss rods 3 full turns to get basses playable. By the 1/4 turn MYTH it would have taken 12 days to get that bass with the fully tightened truss rod playable again, and 6 days to get the bass that had a totally loose truss rod, that was never adjusted, adjusted properly. Yes it is an absolute total myth and a total waste of time to only adjust a truss rod a quarter turn a day. You adjust the neck until it is playable, if it needs another adjustment after the neck settles, you readjust it then. Bass necks and truss rods are not some delicate, fragile thing. Truss rods are installed in a bass to adjust the neck, no real tech with a busy shop, who has to make a quick turn around on jobs brought to him will ever agree to that myth.

Swapping strings between the two basses one at a time would have been a waste of time, and totally unnecessary. The neck could move just as easily due to the difference in string tension, as it would if no strings were on it at all. Chances are just restringing the original bass with the flats will correct the problem in a few hours under string tension. If not, a quick truss rod adjustment will fix the problem. So spending an extra 10 minutes swapping strings back and forth, and possibly breaking a string in the process is not worth the effort to possibly, negate having to do a very minor 5 second truss rod adjustment, in which anyone can learn to do.
 
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#23
Hopkins said:
I have turned a truss rod over a turn and a half, and I have loosed truss rods 3 full turns to get basses playable. By the 1/4 turn MYTH it would have taken 12 days to get that bass with the fully tightened truss rod playable again, and 6 days to get the bass that had a totally loose truss rod, that was never adjusted, adjusted properly. Yes it is an absolute total myth and a total waste of time to only adjust a truss rod a quarter turn a day. You adjust the neck until it is playable, if it needs another adjustment after the neck settles, you readjust it then. Bass necks and truss rods are not some delicate, fragile thing. Truss rods are installed in a bass to adjust the neck, no real tech with a busy shop, who has to make a quick turn around on jobs brought to him will ever agree to that myth.

Swapping strings between the two basses one at a time would have been a waste of time, and totally unnecessary. The neck could move just as easily due to the difference in string tension, as it would if no strings were on it at all. Chances are just restringing the original bass with the flats will correct the problem in a few hours under string tension. If not, a quick truss rod adjustment will fix the problem. So spending an extra 10 minutes swapping strings back and forth, and possibly breaking a string in the process is not worth the effort to possibly, negate having to do a very minor 5 second truss rod adjustment, in which anyone can learn to do.
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Did you read my post? Would you proceed with three full turns on any bass under any circumstance? The world is littered with broken truss rods, broken necks. Some of them got that way by careless means. My favourite luthier, a real luthier that builds a bunch of basses, will do a setup within a week, no matter what. They don't restrict themselves to 1/4 turn every 24 hours. That would be completely silly. But, they will still take their time and properly assess the situation. Again, I am just repeating my previous post here.

As for swapping strings, you can proceed however you want. But, the laws of physics and the principles of material strengths don't get suspended for anybody. Maybe one day the technology will exist, but not right now. So, again, you can proceed like you want. However, changing strings one by one will mitigate a lot of factors: change in forces applied on necks, bridge movement (especially if you are dealing with a floating bridge), saddle movement, etc.

But, I get it, you have your ways, others have their ways. I am being completely respectful here and just voicing an opinion. You are trying to derisive about others' points of view. That's your right. I am going to choose to use the ignore button now.
 
#25
nshuman said:
Did you read my post? Would you proceed with three full turns on any bass under any circumstance? The world is littered with broken truss rods, broken necks. Some of them got that way by careless means. My favourite luthier, a real luthier that builds a bunch of basses, will do a setup within a week, no matter what. They don't restrict themselves to 1/4 turn every 24 hours. That would be completely silly. But, they will still take their time and properly assess the situation. Again, I am just repeating my previous post here.

As for swapping strings, you can proceed however you want. But, the laws of physics and the principles of material strengths don't get suspended for anybody. Maybe one day the technology will exist, but not right now. So, again, you can proceed like you want. However, changing strings one by one will mitigate a lot of factors: change in forces applied on necks, bridge movement (especially if you are dealing with a floating bridge), saddle movement, etc.

But, I get it, you have your ways, others have their ways. I am being completely respectful here and just voicing an opinion. You are trying to derisive about others' points of view. That's your right. I am going to choose to use the ignore button now.
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Yes I read your post, and no I wouldn't proceed under any circumstances, I never said I would. If the nut is stuck, or maxed out then of course I would go through the steps of correcting the issue before just cranking away at it like a gorilla and breaking something. Common sense comes into play. If the nut turns freely with no major resistance change, then it is totally safe to continue adjusting the rod until the neck in in proper adjustment. If the rod is stuck, I will use a light lubricant to see If I can get it to back out. If the adjustment is maxed out, I will back off the nut and use a spacer to give it more travel. If your guy holds on to the instrument for a few days its probably to give the neck time to settle into its new position, and to make any other adjustments that are needed, so the customer doesn't bring the instrument back to him if it does move.

I don't consider my self a luthier, because I don't work on all stringed instruments, if some one brought me double bass and asked me to replane their fingerboard I would not take the job, because I am not qualified. But I am a guitar builder and tech, a real guitar builder and tech that builds and works on a bunch of basses. I take my time and properly assess each instrument that is brought to me as well, but I have never taken a week to set up a guitar or bass, because it is 3 hour job at max on a brand new bass that has never been set up before. That includes relief, action at the nut, action at the bridge, and intonation. Its never more than a one day turn around. I will sometimes keep a bass over night if it is brought to me in the afternoon and I will always recheck the action and make any other necessary adjustments, and if the neck moves after the customer gets the bass back, I will readjust his neck for him on the spot for free if he brings it back to me. Most people want their instrument back ASAP and would rather bring it back to me for a quick adjustment instead of it sitting on a stand at my place, waiting to see if it moves or not. Most of the time I don't have to readjust anything.
 
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#27
The neck does get stressed when the tension suddenly changes, that's no myth. But on the other hand, the wood should be able to take it just fine so it should be a non-issue. If the neck cracks, it's very likely that it's really, really old, poor quality and/or already damaged (e.g. hairline crack due to impact etc.). Meaning, if a neck can't take it, it should likely be replaced anyway. Same goes for the 1/4 turn myth. A healthy decent-quality neck should have zero problems with a few full turns.

Still, nothing wrong being overly careful if you have the time and patience. It's waste of time but if it helps you sleep better, sure, why not.

To OP: This simply sounds like the neck hasn't returned to its original position. No need to guess why, it just happens sometimes. Loosen up the truss rod just a little too much and then tighten it to proper relief. Adjust your action and intonation and you're all set. If you don't know how to do this, there are many, many guides out there. IMO every guitar/bass player should know how to set up their instrument, it'll save you time and money and improve your playing when you can adjust your instruments precisely to your own liking.
 
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#28
I always thought the 1/4 turn myth was more so you didn't adjust the neck farther than it needed once it settled. That it was best to do a little over time so you didn't over shoot the relief you were going for and not so much that it was bad for the neck.
 
#30
I didnt mean for this to be an argument about the subject of string removal and i know my fellow tbers are passionate about their opinions but nothing pisses me off more than a thread turned into fighting like children.
That being said thank all of you for the suggestions again.
I know how to set up a bass.
What my worry was is when i restrung the same strings the neck was just angry. It seemed everything was the same but didnt sound the same.
I loosened the strings last night and gave the truss a couple tweaks to the left and let it sit overnight.
This morning i came back and set the bass up again and worlds of difference. Later i will give it another tweak if needed before i go off to my show tonight.
 
#32
Use the report button if you want the attention of the moderators, they may not read the thread.

I don't think this exchange of opinions, if not overly diplomatic at times, warrants closing the thread though. There's worse here. ;)

Glad to hear your bass works again.
 
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