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Bad experience in the studio

B

BahamaBass

Nov 15, 2008
219
0
#1
I've been trying to get as much experience in the studio. Had a couple good sessions but this last one tonight was real hard.

the songs I had to play on only had a scratch guitar riff, scratch vocals and very busy drums.

in what order does the bass go down? Is it last? I was having a hard time with changes as there was no chords on the track yet just a scratch lead guitar riff.

just wondering what gets recorded first, second etc.?
 
#2
what kind of music are you recording? it makes a difference, i think, because some genres are far more "scripted" than others.

at the very least, if there are chord changes worked out that you're supposed to be following (but your bass part is not written out - you have some freedom to create it...), then there should be some kind of indicator as to when the chords change - a scratch track of chord changes, or something.

how long did the recording session last?
 
#4
birdxofxprey said:
what kind of music are you recording? it makes a difference, i think, because some genres are far more "scripted" than others.

at the very least, if there are chord changes worked out that you're supposed to be following (but your bass part is not written out - you have some freedom to create it...), then there should be some kind of indicator as to when the chords change - a scratch track of chord changes, or something.

how long did the recording session last?
Click to expand...

3 songs. 2 very unusual blues progressions and 1 jazz type song. lots of phrasing...drums seemed all over the place. wasn't able to get chord charts. had to learn the songs by ear in the studio. session lasted little over 3 hours.

the guitar parts were very scratch.

I requested chord charts for the songs but the writer had only some chords for the jazz song scribbled on an envelope which seemed wrong. example he had C Cmin7 and C* as one chord which was misleading. basically the chord was a Cmin7 with a perfect 5th and a double flat 7. that was just one of the many chords in the song. I know some theory but the producer and writer didn't understand what I was talking about so it would have taken forever for us to figure out the proper chord tones for the song which would be necessary for me to work out a bassline for the song as my ears still need way more training.
 
#7
BahamaBass said:
I requested chord charts for the songs but the writer had only some chords for the jazz song scribbled on an envelope which seemed wrong. example he had C Cmin7 and C* as one chord which was misleading. basically the chord was a Cmin7 with a perfect 5th and a double flat 7. that was just one of the many chords in the song. I know some theory but the producer and writer didn't understand what I was talking about so it would have taken forever for us to figure out the proper chord tones for the song which would be necessary for me to work out a bassline for the song as my ears still need way more training.
Click to expand...

i don't think your ears were the problem, the producer was completely unprepared. sounds like a nightmare.
 
#8
yeah it would have been nice if they had some proper chord charts. I asked the guitarist/writer of the piece if he could just accent the chords so I can get the changes but he couldn't even figure out the song!

yes nightmare...one of many more to probably come. like I've heard with the highs comes lots of lows in the music biz. just got to keep trying and keep learning.
 
#9
BahamaBass said:
I've been trying to get as much experience in the studio. Had a couple good sessions but this last one tonight was real hard.

the songs I had to play on only had a scratch guitar riff, scratch vocals and very busy drums.

in what order does the bass go down? Is it last? I was having a hard time with changes as there was no chords on the track yet just a scratch lead guitar riff.

just wondering what gets recorded first, second etc.?
Click to expand...

Dang, that is indeed a nightmare without any charts or harmonic references.

The method NKBASSMAN mentioned is pretty standard. We do the same thing except we try to track drums and bass together to get a fluid feel in the rhythm track and usually have something type of scratch gtr or keys to flesh out the harmonic movement.

If absolutely necessary we sometimes use a ...*gasp*...click track for point of reference if the drums are crazy busy.
 
#11
If you are working for someone that expects you to produce a professional product and can't provide you with a professional minimum of information needed to achieve that goal...

You are working for an idiot.

No chart or audio of the basic chord structure?
They don't need a bass player, they need a psychic.

IMHO YMMV
 
#12
Steve said:
If you are working for someone that expects you to produce a professional product and can't provide you with a professional minimum of information needed to achieve that goal...

You are working for an idiot.

No chart or audio of the basic chord structure?
They don't need a bass player, they need a psychic.

IMHO YMMV
Click to expand...

:lol: that sounds about right I think. :LOL: this studio although very nice is not a pro studio...but I need some where to get experience...although this time a bad one.

the bassist they are replacing me with has toured all over the world and been working pro for 30-40 plus years so he probably will be able to do it quick and by ear. I can't. I need chord charts when they are using jazz chords. I can't hear them yet.
 
#13
rappa29 said:
Dang, that is indeed a nightmare without any charts or harmonic references.

The method NKBASSMAN mentioned is pretty standard. We do the same thing except we try to track drums and bass together to get a fluid feel in the rhythm track and usually have something type of scratch gtr or keys to flesh out the harmonic movement.

If absolutely necessary we sometimes use a ...*gasp*...click track for point of reference if the drums are crazy busy.
Click to expand...

yes no harmonic references....that would have helped.

bass and drums the same time would have been good. although the drummer they used has an attitude so I was glad we didn't do it that way.
 
#15
As far as order of instruments going down I've always put down my parts down with the drums while everyone else laid down scratch tracks.

As long as the drums were good, then everyone was happy. I could come back and punch in any fixes if needed.

I've always wanted to come back after everyone had laid down their final parts (ala McCartney), but have found it's fairly hard to get the same energy factor. Something about playing live with drums seems to help my playing, I guess.
I've never felt I had proper time to get familiar and really learn to play in a studio environ. For little bands recording time is so expensive, there's not too much time put into 'bass experimentation'.

My 2¢ - YMMV :bassist:
 
#16
As far as I'm concerned with recording:

Step 1 - BE PREPARED!

This should mean knowing and practicing the songs before you even think about trying to record them. If you aren't given what you need for this to happen, then I don't think anyone can blame you for taking "more time" than might be necessary...
 
#17
BahamaBass said:
yeah it would have been nice if they had some proper chord charts. I asked the guitarist/writer of the piece if he could just accent the chords so I can get the changes but he couldn't even figure out the song!

yes nightmare...one of many more to probably come. like I've heard with the highs comes lots of lows in the music biz. just got to keep trying and keep learning.
Click to expand...



Of course you're so disadvantaged at this point that anything you come up with is more or less throwing darts. . . . . but here's a little tip that might come in handy. :)

Play really simple on the one and accent with octaves and fives. Stay away from walking bass lines. Pentatonic is your friend. :bassist:

If you do anything on the bass that outlines a chord and it happens to clash with a chord that the songwriter happens to throw in after the fact, then the song is HOSED. Keep to non-committal notes off of the root (such as octave, five, and the good, old fashioned "pentatonic crutch") and you won't win any prizes for creativity, but you will know in your heart that you saved the day. :D
 
#18
Thanks.

Yeah just wasn't prepared.

only prob with using the roots, 5ths and octaves is the writer wanted on one song a sort of walking bass, the other two he wanted me to use the chord tones but even he couldn't remember how to play the songs let alone remember and write down the proper chords.
 
#19
If the guy who hired you can't even remember how to play the song, then how can he possibly expect you to play it properly?

At that point I would have put the bass down and said "Listen, I'm out of here. You do your thing now, and then give me what you record and a couple of days to come up with something that works, and I'll lay down the bass tracks next week." End of story.
 
#20
NKBassman said:
If the guy who hired you can't even remember how to play the song, then how can he possibly expect you to play it properly?

At that point I would have put the bass down and said "Listen, I'm out of here. You do your thing now, and then give me what you record and a couple of days to come up with something that works, and I'll lay down the bass tracks next week." End of story.
Click to expand...


they are always saying they can bring in this musician or that musician and get the part down in one go. Doesn't matter to me if they end up using another bassist. I just wanted some more studio experience. I wasn't getting paid.

They have decided to bring in an upright bass player with 30-40 years experience so maybe he can figure it out. I know I'm no where near that level yet. Just happy to have had a go at it.
 

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