Bad Fret Buzz On Higher Frets. Please Help!

[organworthyplayer337]

The neck looks pretty straight from the photo. The saddles could go higher. And the action looks pretty good. If you're getting buzz on specific frets, it could be a higher fret. If you have a straight edge yard stick try placing it over the frets to see if there is a higher fret or two in the area that gives you the problem. If there is a higher fret it could be fixed.

I checked for high frets with the rocking method from both treble and bass side and nothing seems out of place.

As the for the action looking good, I did say that it didn't translate well on the photo. But in my hands it's, the actions on the high side because of the saddles. It's not the most comfortable to play.

 

[202dy]

String heights are measured in sixty fourths of an inch. Relief is measured in thousandths of an inch.

Pictures are useless unless you can see a sixty fourth of an inch without a rule. Or thousandths without feeler gauges.

1. Measure the string height at the twelfth and last fret from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. Do this on the bass and treble sides of the neck.
2. Measure the relief at the seventh (straight edge) or eighth fret (capo at F1).
3. Post the data here and someone should be able to give you some help.

 

[Reedt2000]

I love the bass' tone, look, weight, scale etc. the only thing I don't like about it is the action. Didn't get a great deal but it wasn't full retail price either. It was ordered used from GC, so don't know about the tech part. I haven't worked with the techs at my local GC yet, though. Maybe worth a shot.

It couldn't hurt. I've heard very mixed reviews of GC techs but I'm sure it depends on the individual at your local GC. Just make sure the return policy is still in place if they work on it for you. I'd figure they'd rather work it and have you keep it than go through trying to sell it again but they are held to policies created by the corporate part of the business so who knows. A phone call will let you know if it's an option.

 

[organworthyplayer337]

String heights are measured in sixty fourths of an inch. Relief is measured in thousandths of an inch.

Pictures are useless unless you can see a sixty fourth of an inch without a rule. Or thousandths without feeler gauges.

1. Measure the string height at the twelfth and last fret from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. Do this on the bass and treble sides of the neck.
2. Measure the relief at the seventh (straight edge) or eighth fret (capo at F1).
3. Post the data here and someone should be able to give you some help.

12th fret-
B: 5/64
T: 6/64

Last fret-
B:5/64
T:5/64

Checking those measurements against Fender recommendations, they look about right.

Now for the relief....
With capo at fret 1 and pressing on the last fret... I can fit a 0.8mm piece of card in the gap that just barely moves the string at fret 7 and 8

Thanks for the help y'all, seriously!

**FWIW I do not have a proper set of feeler guages but I do have a set of calipers to measure the cards so it's still pretty accurate

 

[bluefizz]

If you have feeler gauges and a capo, Capo off the 1st fret, hold down the 15th fret with your left hand and check the distance between the 8th fret and E string with your right.
Then hold the last fret down and check the 12th fret.
If the distance is higher at the 8th fret your neck has a lot of relief and you need to tighten your truss rod.
If it his lower you need to loosen it.
Depending on the fretwork, you'll pretty much want the gaps between the 8th and 12th frets the same.
I usually set my neck .15mm to .25mm.
(.15mm is really straight, only my MTD 635 is that low, but thats thanks to Mike)
.25 is what I have my fender jazz basses setup, My Jaco bass is somewhere in the middle.
Once thats done, set the saddle height low (I start low and go from there).
Play up the string, if you find a buzz, do a 1/4 turn to each screw to keep the saddle flat, repeat.
Be sure to follow the curvature of the fretboard. The saddles should not be all the same height. E saddle should be a little higher for the string to vibrate.
Once all thats done, intonate.
Make sure to constantly make sure the bass is in tune. You'll be doing a lot of tuning.
Also check buzzing, tuning, and gaps with the bass in playing position.

This will fix your buzzing issue. Some fretwork might not be great, and you'll have to have higher action or have your frets dressed.

 

[bluefizz]

Checking those measurements against Fender recommendations, they look about right.

Fender recommendations are not great unless you want super high action.

Now for the relief....
With capo at fret 1 and pressing on the last fret... I can fit a 0.8mm piece of card in the gap that just barely moves the string at fret 7 and 8

.8mm means you need to tighten the truss rod. Thats a lot of relief.

 

[202dy]

12th fret-
B: 5/64
T: 6/64

Last fret-
B:5/64
T:5/64

Checking those measurements against Fender recommendations, they look about right.

Now for the relief....
With capo at fret 1 and pressing on the last fret... I can fit a 0.8mm piece of card in the gap that just barely moves the string at fret 7 and 8

Thanks for the help y'all, seriously!

**FWIW I do not have a proper set of feeler guages but I do have a set of calipers to measure the cards so it's still pretty accurate

String heights are good at that relief. Unfortunately the relief reads like a string height.

Generally, the relief should be somewhere in the neighborhood of .012" give or take two or three thousandths. The relief on your instrument is .031" or roughly two and a half times the usual recommendation.

If you read the sticky and select a source you will find that they agree as to the order of operations. First, adjust relief. Then adjust string height. Finish up with intonation.

Adjusting relief, if you like to measure, requires purchasing feeler gauges. They are not expensive and are readily available at the auto parts store, the department store at the mall, or the large home center on the four lane. Failing that, use a thin business card.

To recap, adjust the relief (straighten the neck), regulate the string height (raise the saddles), set the intonation. Post your results. Receive thunderous interweb applause for your victory. Or more recommendations if that doesn't work.

 

[Turnaround]

hmmm...well I've never had a bass where forward bow creates a dip only between the nut end and the 12th or 14th frets and no increase in string height at the body end.

That's a typical profile. You won't see it unless you measure the trueness of the neck end-to -end. On a typical bolt-on the neck attaches to the body at about the 16th fret. Then neck transitions from round to square profile at around the 13-14th fret. So between the bolts securing the neck to the body and the extra meat in the neck at the square end, the truss rod can have no effect from about fret 13 on up. Increase in string height from 12 on up is a function of where the saddles are set and has nothing to do with the truss rod.

Ideally the geometry of a bass would allow for a gentle end-to-end relief. But it's not possible with typical bass designs. It gets complicated because the neck won't do what we would like. If it actually extended from nut to bridge (a.k.a.neck-through) AND had an equal thickness end to end AND had equal width end to end AND had identical edge support end to end, then we might be able to get an ideal relief if the materials involved were homogenous. Given that most of these parameters are not available, it's amazing it works at all.

 

[organworthyplayer337]

String heights are good at that relief. Unfortunately the relief reads like a string height.

Generally, the relief should be somewhere in the neighborhood of .012" give or take two or three thousandths. The relief on your instrument is .031" or roughly two and a half times the usual recommendation.

If you read the sticky and select a source you will find that they agree as to the order of operations. First, adjust relief. Then adjust string height. Finish up with intonation.

Adjusting relief, if you like to measure, requires purchasing feeler gauges. They are not expensive and are readily available at the auto parts store, the department store at the mall, or the large home center on the four lane. Failing that, use a thin business card.

To recap, adjust the relief (straighten the neck), regulate the string height (raise the saddles), set the intonation. Post your results. Receive thunderous interweb applause for your victory. Or more recommendations if that doesn't work.

Thanks for this. Couple questions.. may be a stupid ones...oh well

I feel like this bass is in an extreme situation (truss rod tight and saddles high), how would you begin setting a bass like this up? Do you start from scratch (and put everything at a "equilibrium") or just start from where it is now?

Thanks!

 

[bluefizz]

I feel like this bass is in an extreme situation (truss rod tight and saddles high), how would you begin setting a bass like this up? Do you start from scratch (and put everything at a "equilibrium") or just start from where it is now?

Thanks!

Whenever I get a new bass:
- New Strings (oil/clean)
- Truss Rod adjustments
- Saddle adjustment
- Intonation
- Pickup height adjustment
- Check/fix for electronics issues (pots, wires, solder joints, output jack, etc)
I usually check to see if there are any extreme changes in a week (like the neck just completely gave way).

 

[organworthyplayer337]

Whenever I get a new bass:
- New Strings (oil/clean)
- Truss Rod adjustments
- Saddle adjustment
- Intonation
- Pickup height adjustment
- Check/fix for electronics issues (pots, wires, solder joints, output jack, etc)
I usually check to see if there are any extreme changes in a week (like the neck just completely gave way).

That's weird, that's my exact checklist order too

 

[202dy]

Thanks for this. Couple questions.. may be a stupid ones...oh well

I feel like this bass is in an extreme situation (truss rod tight and saddles high), how would you begin setting a bass like this up? Do you start from scratch (and put everything at a "equilibrium") or just start from where it is now?

Thanks!

Footing. Foundation. Framing. Roof. While it is possible to build the roof first, you will have to pay for the crane later.

First establish a baseline. Work from there. The base line (footing/foundation) is the relief. Do that first.

Any changes made in any direction before adjusting the relief will still require adjusting the relief and starting over with a new baseline.

As far as the tight truss rod nut, there are plenty of threads here. If the guitar was on my bench I would loosen the nut, clamp the neck into a back bow, and tighten the nut until snug. Then release the clamp and assess.

 

[ZenG]

I guess this is where the ski jump would be noticeable
View attachment 1183254

I don't see any ski jump. What I see is a dead flat neck.

 

[rwkeating]

In the first post you said you checked for high/low frets with a metal ruler and a credit card. A credit card is way too thick for checking for high/low frets. I am guessing you need those frets leveled.

Edit: just realized you may have been using the credit card to see if it rocked between frets. I though you were seeing if it could pass under the ruler. Oops.
Please clarify (for my own sanity at least.)

 

[ZenG]

That's a typical profile. You won't see it unless you measure the trueness of the neck end-to -end. On a typical bolt-on the neck attaches to the body at about the 16th fret. Then neck transitions from round to square profile at around the 13-14th fret. So between the bolts securing the neck to the body and the extra meat in the neck at the square end, the truss rod can have no effect from about fret 13 on up. Increase in string height from 12 on up is a function of where the saddles are set and has nothing to do with the truss rod.

Yes I get what you mean, no problem. But the neck is usually engineered on the stock bass with tilt on it.

Every time I put more forward bow in a neck I have to adjust string height a little. To get it down to where it was before I started. Usually around a millimeter.

 

[organworthyplayer337]

In the first post you said you checked for high/low frets with a metal ruler and a credit card. A credit card is way too thick for checking for high/low frets. I am guessing you need those frets leveled.

Edit: just realized you may have been using the credit card to see if it rocked between frets. I though you were seeing if it could pass under the ruler. Oops.
Please clarify (for my own sanity at least.)

The credit card was for rocking purposes don't worry!

 

[prokfrog]

Hi Folks. Lurking around in older threads as I am currently trying to find the right balance of action, relief, and neck angle. So since I really didn't see that any resolution was reached, here's my $0.02... In the very beginning the OP mentioned there was a shim. I would absolutely bet that removing the shim will correct the problem as described whereas the neck is no longer parallel to the body. It looks like there is still enough travel left in the saddles to compensate for the higher action resulting from removing the shim. When you start fretting that high on a shimmed neck, the butt end is angled up and therefore hitting the strings. You either have to raise the saddles, or reduce/remove the shim.

 

[JLS]

Hi Folks. Lurking around in older threads as I am currently trying to find the right balance of action, relief, and neck angle. So since I really didn't see that any resolution was reached, here's my $0.02... In the very beginning the OP mentioned there was a shim. I would absolutely bet that removing the shim will correct the problem as described whereas the neck is no longer parallel to the body. It looks like there is still enough travel left in the saddles to compensate for the higher action resulting from removing the shim. When you start fretting that high on a shimmed neck, the butt end is angled up and therefore hitting the strings. You either have to raise the saddles, or reduce/remove the shim.

And I'll bet that you're mistaken.

You deal with this--an obvious ski jump, re the OP's description--by dealing with the kink at F14/15. Mill down the frets from 15 up if the kink's not terrible, or pull frets and mill the fingerboard if it is.

I've also had good results clamping and cooking.

 

[prokfrog]

And I'll bet that you're mistaken.

You deal with this--an obvious ski jump, re the OP's description--by dealing with the kink at F14/15. Mill down the frets from 15 up if the kink's not terrible, or pull frets and mill the fingerboard if it is.

I've also had good results clamping and cooking.

Sure however it was also noted that the upper (end) section of the fretboard was flat....

 

[Turnaround]

Some folks have difficulty visualizing the geometry when looking at a problem like this. It seems on the surface that a shim would cause a lift at the butt end of the fretboard causing the notes to choke out on the upper end. But if the cause of the problem is a kink (a.k.a. ski jump) at the end of the board, shim or no shim will not have any effect. Here's why.

In the crude diagram below, I have exaggerated the problem for clarity. In the upper drawing we have the situation where their is a shim at the base of the neck, angling the neck to the body. The blue line represents the string fretted at the 15th fret, and you can see that it is now touching the last fret on the neck. If we remove the shim and adjust the bridge to give the same string height at the 12th fret, the string still frets out at the last fret (blue line again).

Even if the neck had no kink, shimming or not shimming would have no effect on the string clearances if the bridge is adjusted to give the same height at the 12th fret. The body is irrelevant when it comes to notes fretting out, as is the neck-to-body angle. The only effect the shim has on the geometry is to require the bridge to be adjusted to provide the same string height, usually measured at the 12th fret.

Hope this helps.