Bad neck set HELP!!

[Dantzer8001]

So I have been working on this for a few months. I got the "utah slab, cut your own shape" kit from fretwire. It's a set neck 4 string. Their work around for their ric kit. This is my first build, so I figured a kit would be less overwhelming because the neck was built and the pocket is already to spec.

I took my time and planned that I would upgrade pretty much everything. I just wanted a new bass and I guess I thought a build could be more economical... I was fooling myself!!! I spent more for this project than if I just got that schecter apocalypse bass I wanted.

I referenced a lot of youtube builders and other "how to" videos. Always seems simple enough. Dan from guns and guitar mentions how he wished he had colored the body before he glued the neck because he wanted different colors.
I thought that was a good idea.
The neck joint was slightly loose, so shimmed the sides with veneer. A slight bit of sanding and it was a nice tight fit.

I glued the neck with tirebond 1 after shaping, sanding, and binding. At first I felt I got it in there funny, so I popped my clamps off and asserted alpha force pushing it together by hand and re clamping it.

It didn't look as pretty as far as a joint, but I put a straight edge on it and set the bridge on the body to check it. I might have been to excited to properly investigate how well it was, it looked straight to me from the clouds my head was in.

I could decide on finishing so I ended up using mowhawk aerosol ultra clear flat lacquer. It looks cool to me, but now reality is kicking in at set up time. The bridge is bottomed out, I know the nut can come down and I have a blank nut yet to carve. I just don't know what to do first. Pickups, preamp, pickguard, fret leveling and everything else is pretty much done but I got string floating a mile off the board up on the neck and I can see the string height in between the pickups is dramatically higher than at the bridge.

Sorry for the long wind. This project means a lot to me and this is the first time I've reached out like this.

I did a poo poo job at setting my neck, is there anyway I can save this!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

The "right" thing to do would be to remove and reset the neck. Look up some acoustic guitar neck reset videos. You'd need a heat and steam set up like that. When measuring to reset the neck a straight edge run the full length of the fretboard should just touch the top of the bridge saddles with the saddles all the way down.

You could route a recess for the bridge to lower it. However much the strings need to come down at the 12th fret you'll need approximately twice that depth of a pocket. That's the usual formula for lowering an acoustic bridge. Start less then that and work deeper.

I suppose you could cut a wedge out of the neck heel and glue the remaining heel together and sort of Red Green a way to increase the neck angle. That's not really a recommended way to do it though, especially since you probably only need literally a degree or two.

Also, some pictures wouldn't hurt...

 

[Dantzer8001]

The "right" thing to do would be to remove and reset the neck. Look up some acoustic guitar neck reset videos. You'd need a heat and steam set up like that. When measuring to reset the neck a straight edge run the full length of the fretboard should just touch the top of the bridge saddles with the saddles all the way down.

You could route a recess for the bridge to lower it. However much the strings need to come down at the 12th fret you'll need approximately twice that depth of a pocket. That's the usual formula for lowering an acoustic bridge. Start less then that and work deeper.

I suppose you could cut a wedge out of the neck heel and glue the remaining heel together and sort of Red Green a way to increase the neck angle. That's not really a recommended way to do it though, especially since you probably only need literally a degree or two.

Also, some pictures wouldn't hurt...

 

[Dantzer8001]

 

[Dantzer8001]

 

[Dantzer8001]

 

[Dantzer8001]

Apologies, im learning how operation works on here.
I uploaded them but I guess I didn't post them.

Brainstorming, I did actually think of routing a recess for the bridge. I then start to examine for the process and i think my neck joint is just at to hard of an angle. It might make it playable but I was thinking its a permanent mod and maybe not the direct remedy for the problem. It seems whatever action I choose is going to be risky and delicate.

I can't seem to find much information about resetting a neck on an instrument like this though. It all seems to be acoustics or lp guitars so im not feeling really confident about it

 

[Turnaround]

THe problem is that the neck plane is not parallel to the plane of the body - see yellow lines:

Matt's solutions are the options as I see it.

 

[Dantzer8001]

I haven't been successful finding good information about how to remove the neck. I see steam is the way to go, but how should I do it? Will it ruin the lacquer finish? How would one go about cleaning up the pocket if I were to succefully get it off? Are there common mistakes when people are trying to do this, that I should be aware of?

I'm just terrified of ruining it. It's been a lot of time and emotional investment in it.

I do appreciate the advice though folks!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Yeah, now that I see some pictures, like @Turnaround said the neck should be parallel to the body plane or, if anything, angled the other direction from how it is and it doesn't take much. I think a Les Paul even with its carved top is still only a 2 or 3 degree angle.

I can't tell very well from the pictures but there could be a gap between the very outside end of the neck heel and the bottom of the pocket which would most definitely cause this problem and make me suspicious of how well the whole assembly will hold string tension long term.

I think your best bet, although the most difficult option, is to remove the neck and start over. It really is the same process as an acoustic you might have to figure a different way to get the steam into the joint is all. From what I can see in the pictures you might try right there underneath where there seems to be a slight gap between the heel and body. I know some guys here have removed necks from Rippers and the like which will be a similar joint. Maybe one of them will see your thread and chime in with some ideas.

 

[Turnaround]

I haven't been successful finding good information about how to remove the neck. I see steam is the way to go, but how should I do it? Will it ruin the lacquer finish? How would one go about cleaning up the pocket if I were to succefully get it off? Are there common mistakes when people are trying to do this, that I should be aware of?

I'm just terrified of ruining it. It's been a lot of time and emotional investment in it.

I do appreciate the advice though folks!

These are very good questions. Unfortunately there is not a simple answer. You can look at various acoustic guitar sources to find how to steam out a neck joint. You'll need a steam source, a steaming hose and needle. Then reshape the neck pocket until you can set the neck in at the right angle. The right angle is determined by attaching the bridge with the saddles just slightly above bottomed out, and with a straight edge along the surface of the fretboard, the straightedge will just touch the top of the saddle. THat's the right angle. Re-route the neck pocket to that angle.
Before you re-assemble, be sure all of the titebond has been eradicated from the pocket - you must clean out the old glue thoroughly before applying new glue, otherwise it won't adhere well. That involves using mineral spirits, citrus-based cleaners and ammonia along with much scraping. This all will endanger the lacquer finish so you need to find a way to protect it in the process.

 

[Dantzer8001]

I really appreciate the advice ! It would be comforting to see an example of someone having success and recovery this operation lol. It should be easier to get steam to the joint but pocket on the body is super thin .. I am acquiring materials for the operation today.

A shark Porta steam clean rigged to a fuel line with a turkey seasoning injector needle fastened in it with a hose clamp hahah. Putty knife with a torch to heat it. And towels.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

That works. I was going to mention a wallpaper steamer and some way to adapt one of the needles you'd inflate a basketball with.

Here's some other threads, hopefully helpful. I didn't read all the way through each one.

Removing a set neck?

Neck Reset - Measuring the tenon of a Gibson Ripper

I was hoping the OP on the last one might chime in but his name isn't coming up when I try to tag him...

Keep us posted.

 

[202dy]

Nitro plus steam = blushing. Imagine a whitish cloud in the lacquer.

The good news is that it's not as big a problem as it sounds. Shoot a little Blush Eraser (mostly lacquer solvent) on the spot and beyond, wait for it to cure, and rub it out. The solvents in the eraser melt through the coats of lacquer and release the moisture.

It's more work. But the job at hand is a lot of work if you want it to be right. And just think about how much you're learning from making the mistakes. The average tech never deals with any of this. It's like a master class without having to travel and pay for one.

 

[byacey]

To get the steam in there, you have a few options, but none of them simple. One is to lift a fret or two, drill down through the fret slot to inject the steam. Another, depending on the material the fretboard is made of, you could drill a hole down through the fretboard, anywhere near the end of the neck pocket closest to the headstock end, and inject steam to start loosening the neck. Once the glue starts softening enough, you can start wedging it open with a wooden wedge, and apply more steam into the wedged opening to continue separating it. Don't try an rush this process.
After, fill the hole with a like-colored wood pin.

I use an old kettle with a steam whistle that caps the pouring spout. I drilled a hole in the whistle/cap for a hose barb fitting, and I used a 1/4" hose with a sports ball inflating needle on the end.

After removing the neck, give it a few day for the moisture to dry out.

 

[Dantzer8001]

 

[Dantzer8001]

 

[Dantzer8001]

The blocks on the side of the neck heel are there for furring the pocket for the pickup mount.
However the slim shim at the base of the heel was my idea to to have some absolute stop for the neck as well as being an amateur and seeing all the different perspectives on tone transfer.
Per kit instructions, they mentioned to leave a gap at end of the pickup route and neck heel. Iv also seen before this was a "cut your own shape" kit people posted building the ric kit, and folks had left the gap.

They may have remedied that since the kit was altered though because the pickguard position moved too.

I was ok with that because I planned on fabricating a new pickguard anyway. I wonder if that 1/8 shim has anything to do with this angle situation. I figured the neck pocket would be planed level and the the heel had all the angle.

This is what I got so far to do this process, I had a friend in need yesterday with her car, so I didn't have the time to do it. I'm anxious but I just want to get it going. It's looking like it might have to wait for tomorrow now.

I'll pick up some blush eraser too! I appreciate that heads up!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

It could take some time to get that neck out. You'll want to wait to start until you can give it your attention for a while. It might pop loose in 5 minutes of steaming or it might take an hour...

 

[byacey]

I see better what you're up against. I would drill an 1/8" hole through the butt of the neck, just past the end of the fingerboard, and inject your steam there.