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Balanced string tension questions.

Thinking of creating a set a balanced tension flatwounds.
Seems to be in the area of 40/55/75/95 or 100 is the given.
What id like to know is when going by a chart, how many pounds difference from string to string does it take to feel a noticable difference?
 
how many pounds difference from string to string does it take to feel a noticable difference?

Playing feel is a subjective thing. It's quite possible that a set that's perfectly balanced in terms of numbers (lbs.) may not feel as balanced under your fingers or in terms of tone, or vice versa.

That said, I would consider a set to be "balanced" when the difference between the highest and the lowest is within 5 lbs.
 
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I just want to experience an even tension across all the strings for once.
But i dont care for 105 on an E.
100 always feels right, but going balanced from there is 75A/55D/40G it seems on most sets.
Just worry about the thin side.
 
I have tried both .124 and .130 six string sets of balanced tension Circle K/kalium strings and never even noticed the A and D string diameter. They just feel so right it isn't noticeable. On the other hand, the .26 C of the .124 set is a big difference from a .28 or .30.
 
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Just worry about the thin side.

why worry? it's just better :P

talking about tension, I usually like the 40-55-75-100.

when the D is 55 and the A is 70, there's too much difference (it's just like having a 65-80, and it's unbalanced usually), and the E usually is lighter than the A string, so a 100 would work better.
my "perfect G" is the 42 or 43 of the Thomastik sets, over the 40 or 45, but it even depends on brands.

however, balanced sets requier a perfect setup to notice the balance.
 
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I just want to experience an even tension across all the strings for once.
But i dont care for 105 on an E.
100 always feels right, but going balanced from there is 75A/55D/40G it seems on most sets.
Just worry about the thin side.

yo man get some TI jazz flats. the tension per string is listed below. i was jonesing just like yourself after switching back from them to about 7 different sets of flats. but i always come back to the TI. evenly sounding and even tension. and that's for a guy that tunes down a half step :0 the truss rod is my friend.

37.03 lbs. G, 37.47 lbs. D, 31.30 lbs. A, 34.39 lbs. E
 
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i dont care for 105 on an E.
100 always feels right, but going balanced from there is 75A/55D/40G it seems on most sets.

The challenge in putting together a balanced set is two-fold; 1) Only a few manufacturers publish the tension info, and 2) Gauges don't tell the whole story.

Here's an illustration of how gauges in and of themselves are not a reliable way of determining what constitutes "balanced".

Two sets of exactly the same gauges from two different manufacturers.
Note how the tensions differ rather drastically with G and D in particular.

D'Addario Chromes Flatwound:
(Tension info based on what is published on D'Addario website)

G 045 - 53.31 (lbs.)
D 065 - 58.63
A 085 - 51.67
E 105 - 43.15

GHS Precision Flatwound:
(Tension info based on the GHS Tension Guide prepared by Jon Moody)

G 045 - 41.50 (lbs.)
D 065 - 50.70
A 085 - 51.20
E 105 - 45.00
 
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EXL220BT - Super Light 33lbs - .040 .055 .070 .095 from BassStringsOnline if 105 is too big of an E for you.

Here's another interesting comparison: D'Addario XL Nickels, 40-55-70-95 vs. 40-55-75-100.

EXL220BT Balanced Tension Set:

G 040 - 32.42
D 055 - 34.69
A 070 - 31.21
E 095 - 31.66

Custom Balanced Tension Set:

G 040 - 32.42
D 055 - 34.69
A 075 - 35.41
E 100 - 34.72
 
Here are the Kalium Ratings for the sets I listed. I usually run the G and C from the .130 set with the .124 set, though.
Kalium
.124 - 32.9lbs
.094 - 34.1lbs
.070 - 34lbs
.053 - 35.6lbs
.037 - 31.8lbs

.026 - 29.6lbs

.130 - 36lbs
.098 - 37.2
.073 - 37lbs
.055 - 37.7lbs
.039 - 35lbs

.028 - 33lbs

My Custom
.124 - 32.9lbs
.094 - 34.1lbs
.070 - 34lbs
.053 - 35.6lbs
.039 - 35lbs
.028 - 33lbs
 
Exactly how I would do it if I had to make a balanced set?
Order singles from Jason @ bassstringsonline.com

My "balanced" set that I ran on my Rick 4002 (yes, "2," not "1"or "3") for decades was Progressives in 45-60-80-105. Now, when I need rounds instead of my tapes, I use the same set, but I have changed the G-45 to a Pressurewound 44, as it has the same wrap wire, just compressed, is not as twangy out of the box, settles in well with good sustain and tone to match the others, and actually matches the tension better for the DAE strings. According to the GHS chart:

G PW 44 - 43.3 lb
D PR 60 - 41.8 lb
A PR 80 - 41.0 lb
E PR 105 - 38 lb

This gives a nice, even progression from slightly stiffer on the G string to make sure it has good tone and sustain, to slightly less on the E string to make sure it has good tone with good overtones and doesn't immediately go thump. Yes, the E string is a little lighter, but I also raise it up just a little bit for the wider string excursion.

REMEMBER: nothing is perfect. Everything is a compromise. If you get a truly matched tension set without changing scale length as on a fanned-fret instrument, you will have a twangy G and thumpy E or B because the G string will be too thin to settle in, and the E or B string will be too stiff from its diameter compared to the scale length to effectively vibrate in its overtones to give good tone. This is nothing new. Eighteenth century harpsichord makers limited their courses because the strings would get too taut in the treble and break, and if they shortened the scale too much, there would be no sustain. Conversely, they used copper or brass for the lowest strings instead of steel because they had to foreshorten the scale in the bass so the strings would actually respond, and the instrument would not be too long to be manageable as it would have been if the true 2:1 octave ratio were retained in string length. This has carried over to modern pianos with wound bass strings, the predecessor to having round wound bass guitar strings.

The original reason for a heavier G string, like on an original Fender 50-100 set, was to keep it from being twangy. The original reason for having more mass on the D string was so that it would tonally balance on a bass with a flat pickup but an arc'ed fingerboard because the signal decreases according to the square of the distance from the pickup, so the string had more mass comparatively to get the same signal strength out of the pickup. The A string ended up being so thick that it lost articulation, hence the experiments with the "High A" pole pieces on a Precision pickup. And the E string was made significantly lighter than the math would otherwise indicate in order to retain as much flexibility, overtones, and therefore as consistent tone as possible, and could be raised so it was tonally the same distance from the pickup as the rest of the strings.

Now, with flatter crown radii on fingerboards and better amplification, the need for the compensation in string diameters to keep tonal consistency is not as great as it used to be, and we are all going towards even tension. However, the same design concerns are still there, because the pickups are still flat, there is at least some arc to modern fingerboards, and it is complicated with extended scales and tunings, both up and down in pitch, beyond the traditional 4-string bass.

My final point in all this digression is that even with modern instruments, because the G is still thin and the E or B can still thump, perfectly even tension string-to-string may or may not be the answer, depending on the player, the repertoire, and the instrument/amplifier combination, how the string is constructed, and even the availability of different gauges and alloys of the raw wire used in construction. A compromise in tension, taking into account all the design elements of the signal chain from fingers to speakers, is in order. That is why my set for my Rick 4002 has a modified tension that is even from the standpoint of an even progression of tensions, which work for me and my instrument. Your mileage will vary, and I encourage experimentation.
 
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[...Long and interesting post...]

I agree, I prefer the lower strings to be slightly lower in tension than the higher ones, but just slightly. What I really dislike most about traditional sets is the tight D right next to the comparatively floppy G. That, and the overall difference in tension across the whole set often is not slight at all, but rather severe.

I have also contemplated using a pressurewound or flatwound G with a roundwound set, but never got around to it.

Another reason the the G (and sometimes the D) tends to be thin sounding is that its's wound with only one layer of wrap. This tends to brighten things up a bit. I wish someone would make a G with two really thin wraps instead to get the same string weight (read tension). I think that would sound better.
 
Actually, it is not the wrap, it is the lower mass that makes the G string twangy. Remember that the lower strings, to make them more flexible, and therefore brighter with more overtones, are the ones that have multiple wraps instead of a large core. It is all a balance.
 
Actually, it is not the wrap, it is the lower mass that makes the G string twangy. Remember that the lower strings, to make them more flexible, and therefore brighter with more overtones, are the ones that have multiple wraps instead of a large core. It is all a balance.

I don't agree here. It's the length to thickness ratio, not the weight, that's the main contributor to the bright thin tone. The single wrap makes things worse though. The weight is the same for a pressurewound if you make it the right gauge, and you still get that improvement in tone. I think one would get similar results with a double wrap G, and it would be more marketable.

I suspect the main reason for multiple layers of wraps on the lower strings is that if the wrap wire was thick enough to get the desired gauge with one layer, it would get damaged or even break in the winding process. Increased number of thinner wraps (string weight/tension being equal) tends to make strings duller IME. Part of this is probably due to friction between the wraps, but I don't think that's the whole story. Even if each wrap wire is more flexible (no breakage during production) the overall effect on the finished string is not increased flexibility IMO.