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Band Diva

#21
The situation: one or more players do not carry their own weight; they don't "contribute" to the totality of the group/are not responsible for what the rest of the group considers their fair share of work. :rollno:

I've seen this happen on more than one occasion, and it ain't pretty, folks. If not addressed (in a constructive fashion), it WILL breed resentment and could eventually lead to either the perpetrators getting fired or the band breaking up entirely. :eek:

My feeling is that the OP, if he truly wants to rectify the situation, needs to talk to the BL and try to get a resolution. If the BL doesn't have the stones to work it, and if other band mates feel the same as the OP, then call a campfire, and hash it out in as polite a way as possible.

In this day and age, there should be no room for divas of either sex. IMNSHO, the OP's diva ought to show up on time and help tear down as well. There are no excuses for the behavior described. Previous posts have given any number of good fixes. Pick one, or more, and go at it. :bassist::bassist:

Good luck, and let us know how this is resolved.
 
#22
Hooray for teamwork and all that, but... would you honestly quit an otherwise-happening band because you had to carry your stuff by yourself? I mean, I always appreciate a hand with my gear, but I am willing and prepared to carry my bass, amp, cab, etc. all by myself if necessary. I am not going to throw a hissy fit because I have to make two trips to the car! :(

Hypothetically, best-case scenario, she muscles up and helps you schlepp gear--how many hours a night does that save you? Better to put her to work at the merch table, it's incredible what selling a stack of $15 CDs does for "team spirit." :)
 
#26
I'm from the "everybody helps everybody" mentality, though that's with communal things like the PA. Most any musician I've worked with takes care of their own stuff. For example I'm not going to pack away the fiddler's bow lest I put it in the case backwards and the bow breaks because of it.

azureblue said:
(and it works for horn players, too):

1- do not pay out until all gear is loaded up.

2- pay a little extra for those who move and set up / tear down. Like paying roadies...

3- set a load in time for the gigs and for sound check, and dock those who show up past that time.

4- Do not adjust her mic without her there. In fact, don't even plug it in. If she shows up right before the set, then she gets to sit out the set (and not get paid for it), and set up her mic herself, on the next break.

5- Don't take up her slack. at all.

6- Or else assign her schmooze work before and after the gig - merch, getting the money, talking to the club or anyone about bookings, etc.
Click to expand...

While some of these ideas might work, I really question #4. She gets to sit out the set? Then who the hell is doing the singing? Can the band perform an entire agreed-upon set list of vocal tunes as instrumentals? Would they even want to? Would the audience put up with instrumentals if they came to see/hear the singer/songs? So many things wrong with #4.

I'd hate to be in any band that it was necessary to implement such rules and restrictions.
 
#27
Mushroo said:
Hooray for teamwork and all that, but... would you honestly quit an otherwise-happening band because you had to carry your stuff by yourself? I mean, I always appreciate a hand with my gear, but I am willing and prepared to carry my bass, amp, cab, etc. all by myself if necessary. I am not going to throw a hissy fit because I have to make two trips to the car! :(

Hypothetically, best-case scenario, she muscles up and helps you schlepp gear--how many hours a night does that save you? Better to put her to work at the merch table, it's incredible what selling a stack of $15 CDs does for "team spirit." :)
Click to expand...

Too many variables in your question to answer precisely.

Helping on CDs and talking to the crowd are important and count. OP said she was just walking out.

Lugging can be anything from just your amp to hours of work with PA, lights, etc. I am ok to lug my amp but not ok to get stuck with a truckload that has to be moved four floors through a service elevator for example. Dunno how much gear and what sort of rooms OP plays, but a 2 ton Toyota Dyna was the biggest thing I ever had to unload regularly. It's a lot of work.

Nothing wrong with cutting someone some slack for special needs.

I just think something is gonna give and it's better to lose a singer who is not doing her share rather than have the band fall apart over discontent at a situation that is not being solved.

Sorry if it comes across as a hissy fit. It's not. The relationships and chemistry in a band are important.
 
#28
::::BASSIST:::: said:
While that's all fine and dandy, if you actually treated your bandmates that way, they would not stick around. As a bandleader I know things can be tricky sometimes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's kinda the point.

There's nothing tricky about it. Unless you have roadies, everyone helps. It may be working the crowd or selling merchandise. It may be winding cords and packing mics. A bandleader that allows one member to act the diva does nothing but breed resentment and hard feelings in the members that are having to do the lion's share of the work, and ends up losing those members, instead.

We had a few chick singer divas in my last band. Both of them acted like the singer mentioned above. Both were given multiple chances to correct their behavior. Both were fired when they continued to insist that their obligation to the band ended when the last note was played.
 
#29
It sounds like the OP is not the bandleader in this case and maybe is not in a position to confront the alleged "diva." So it's really a question of the arrangement she has with the leader. I understand some bands do an even split of loadout but that is not universal; I've been in many bands where the rhythm section does most of the heavy lifting and the singers/horn players are not expected to help. You may be projecting your own preference for how you would personally run your own band onto a situation where the bandleader has a different arrangement with the singer.

So I'll repeat the question: Would you quit the band over this? Hypothetically let's say your loadout is 1 hour, in which case having an extra set of hands might save 15 minutes. Multiply that by the amount this gig pays you per hour, and that is the dollar amount of the inconvenience to you. Is this figure worth getting upset over? Is it a deal-breaker for your involvement in the band?

Now all that being said the one thing in the OP that is a red flag for me is showing up late. I don't care if you have roadies and management to take care of every piddling detail; you still need to show up on time!
 
#30
Mushroo said:
It sounds like the OP is not the bandleader in this case and maybe is not in a position to confront the alleged "diva." So it's really a question of the arrangement she has with the leader. I understand some bands do an even split of loadout but that is not universal; I've been in many bands where the rhythm section does most of the heavy lifting and the singers/horn players are not expected to help. You may be projecting your own preference for how you would personally run your own band onto a situation where the bandleader has a different arrangement with the singer.

So I'll repeat the question: Would you quit the band over this? Hypothetically let's say your loadout is 1 hour, in which case having an extra set of hands might save 15 minutes. Multiply that by the amount this gig pays you per hour, and that is the dollar amount of the inconvenience to you. Is this figure worth getting upset over? Is it a deal-breaker for your involvement in the band?

Now all that being said the one thing in the OP that is a red flag for me is showing up late. I don't care if you have roadies and management to take care of every piddling detail; you still need to show up on time!
Click to expand...

Yes, I would quit any band where I was expected to be the pack mule simply because I was in the rhythm section. I'll pack my own stuff, thank you, but others need to help with the "band" equipment.
 
#31
Maybe there are some cultural/geographical/genre differences going on here between us. I've played many gigs where it's perfectly normal and expected for the singer to show up and sing, the sax player to show up with his horn and blow, etc. It's honestly never even occurred to me to be upset about it until I read this thread. :) Frankly I think back on all those wonderful nights of playing beautiful music I would have missed out on if I'd quit those bands over this "injustice."

But hey, here's a productive suggestion--calculate the dollar figure of your "pack mule" labor like I suggested in my last post, and ask the bandleader for a raise! :)
 
#32
Mushroo said:
Maybe there are some cultural/geographical/genre differences going on here between us. I've played many gigs where it's perfectly normal and expected for the singer to show up and sing, the sax player to show up with his horn and blow, etc. It's honestly never even occurred to me to be upset about it until I read this thread. :) Frankly I think back on all those wonderful nights of playing beautiful music I would have missed out on if I'd quit those bands over this "injustice."
Click to expand...

I've done it that way either when production was hired in or lugged by crew, or when I'm employed flat rate to lug my gear and play.

And I agree the music comes first.
 
#33
- I would not quit a band over this. I love playing too much, and it's hard finding good situations.

- This is a good/great situation. Again, I'm just whining out loud for the heck of it. I don't view it as something to solve, especially since I'm not the band leader.

- If I Was the bandleader, I Would confront it more with the singer.

Again, this is just random horsing around in a thread. I take this far less seriously than some of you posting. It's all about the music. Yup, this stuff bugs me a bit, but - that's life. Not that big of a deal.
 
#35
I never expect anyone to help me move my gear, but if there's a P.A. to set up and tear down it's not really optional that everyone helps. Most sound guys who bring their own system make at minimum $100 a night, usually quite a bit more. If someone's not physically capable of heavy lifting there are other tasks they can do. Plugging things in, dealing with cables, setting up mikes, putting empty cases away, etc. If everyone gets the same pay then everyone should split the work.

And it's not just women that do this. The last band I was in the guitarists only responsibility was his gear and the lights. The singer and I would generally have the entire system up and running before the drummer finished setting up his kit, and an hour later this guy's still setting up lights and his gear isn't even plugged in. He knew that once it got close to show time we'd have no choice but to help him.

I've already left the band for different reasons, but I know for a fact the leader has a replacement guitarist lined up after august. It's a full time touring gig too, not that easy to come by. Some people just don't get that it's usually not in their best interest to be seen as a slacker.
 
#36
Mushroo said:
Maybe there are some cultural/geographical/genre differences going on here between us. I've played many gigs where it's perfectly normal and expected for the singer to show up and sing, the sax player to show up with his horn and blow, etc. It's honestly never even occurred to me to be upset about it until I read this thread. :) Frankly I think back on all those wonderful nights of playing beautiful music I would have missed out on if I'd quit those bands over this "injustice."

But hey, here's a productive suggestion--calculate the dollar figure of your "pack mule" labor like I suggested in my last post, and ask the bandleader for a raise! :)
Click to expand...

No differences here. In every market, in every country, there are musicians who consider themselves "artists" and, as such, are willing to put up with all kinds of "injustices" just to make their "art."

Your post demonstrates one of the biggest problems in the music industry: musicians complete devaluation of their work.
 
#37
guy n. cognito said:
No differences here. In every market, in every country, there are musicians who consider themselves "artists" and, as such, are willing to put up with all kinds of "injustices" just to make their "art."

Your post demonstrates one of the biggest problems in the music industry: musicians complete devaluation of their work.
Click to expand...

So you're saying I'm what's wrong with the music industry today? :)
 
#38
We work occasionally with a female keyboardist/singer. When she comes to gigs, she lends a hand with everything and isn't shy about helping to load in/out gear. She'll help running cable, setting up stands etc.

The only restriction is that we (the guys) load in and load out her keyboard. A giant HEAVY thing. She simply can't handle it. Personally, for the help she does none of us have a problem with this restriction.

Our drummer has played with many females in bands and was blown away the first time she played with us. He couldn't believe how willing she was to help.
 
#40
guy n. cognito said:
No, but the attitude of "hey, I'll put up with no pay, long hours, diva band members, etc.........just to make beautiful music" is a problem. Its the reason that bands today make the same money they made back in the 70s.
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I think you are putting words in my mouth... all I'm saying is, I have no problem helping the drummer load the PA while the singer is working the merch table and the guitarist is haggling with the club owner to make sure we get paid fairly (for example). I don't have good "people skills" and so I prefer a little grunt work over working the crowd. To each his/her own.
 

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