Band Drama

[ChrisB2]

Wait, people. Keeping his word?? The bar sent a FB message with a PROPOSED schedule. This band had every right to request that one of those dates be changed. Did I miss where the "agreement" stated that every date thrown out by a venue would be automatically accepted...? If not then asking for this date to be moved is not wrong on any level. Looks to me like the twitarist simply saw the FB conversation and used it as an excuse to expose his backside.

But we still need to know what the venue's response was. Unfortunately at this point the twitarist has indicated his refusal to cooperate so it seems that a confrontation is brewing... unless OP continues to let the twitarist call the shots...

 

[Rune Bivrin]

Someone saying that you can only be in one band is a red flag for a person with control issues and/or a sign that a person is stuck at a junior high school level of maturity.

Why is it that I suddenly think of James Hetfield (and Jason Newsted)?

 

[lfmn16]

I agree that you need to keep your commitments, but IMHO, the extenuating circumstances here are that first, he is not talking about canceling a gig, just moving it; second, he is giving almost two months of notice, so he isn't putting anyone out; and third, this is not a professional money making band, it's a hobby band that plays once a month or so. There is the letter of the law and then there is common sense. As I said in my previous post, the guitard is just being a dick and trying to flex his muscle here.

 

[Rune Bivrin]

I agree that you need to keep your commitments, but IMHO, the extenuating circumstances here are that first, he is not talking about canceling a gig, just moving it; second, he is giving almost two months of notice, so he isn't putting anyone out; and third, this is not a professional money making band, it's a hobby band that plays once a month or so. There is the letter of the law and then there is common sense. As I said in my previous post, the guitard is just being a dick and trying to flex his muscle here.

Yep. And we all know how much muscle the average guitar player has. That's why they need shiny Spandex and strong lights; otherwise the flexing would go unnoticed...

 

[Crazy_Jake]

Yes, I do the booking. I didn't move the date, I only asked if it was possible. Step 1: Find out if it's even possible. Step 2: ask the band if it's okay. Step 3: if it's okay, change date. Perhaps I got steps 1 & 2 reversed, but if it wasn't possible, then I didn't want to bother the band. That was my thinking, anyway.

I wouldn't say I have ego problems, however you could be right about being frustrated with band A and not really being a fan of the guitarist. He has limited vision, only wants to play what HE wants to play, refuses to learn new stuff, and is pretty stubborn ...and refuses to sing. However, we've managed to get along as bandmates for the past 6 years (nothing is ever perfect I guess.. Wife says I'm never happy), he's a pretty incredible player, and people really seem to dig us. The people who hire us, anyway. It seems to be a really hard band to book. Too loud and too heavy.

You're right about the "Jealous Bitch" comment. I'm just frustrated and pissed he refuses to work with me.

I won't get into the guitarard issue but rather propose an option for you and your conflicted date. Find out what bands are playing at that club either the weekend before or after that conflicted date. Contact them and offer to swap dates. I recently had to do this in my current band in order to take advantage of another booking opportunity. Most bands if they have the notice should be fine to just switch a date - assuming of course they have the availability to do that on their calendar.. Hey it's worth a shot.

 

[Muttleybass]

My first step was to move the Band B weekend to the weekend before, but the Band B guitarist will be on vacation. Band A has a gig the week after. I only asked if that date could be MOVED to the week before. Personally, since that bar manager loves us and goes out of his way to keep us happy I thought it would be no issue. Bar owner's response was "I'll check on it on Tuesday" but it never got that far. And if he would have said NO, I would have still kept that date and not even bothered the band with it.

As it is, I did bow out of the Band B gig as per my agreement. I just thought it was pretty selfish of the guitar player to get all pissed off because I simply asked to move the gig a week ahead. Not willing to work with me at all is the issue here. If I would have said I couldn't make the gig for ANY OTHER REASON it wouldn't have been a problem.

 

[hrodbert696]

Wait, people. Keeping his word?? The bar sent a FB message with a PROPOSED schedule. This band had every right to request that one of those dates be changed. Did I miss where the "agreement" stated that every date thrown out by a venue would be automatically accepted...? If not then asking for this date to be moved is not wrong on any level. Looks to me like the twitarist simply saw the FB conversation and used it as an excuse to expose his backside.

But we still need to know what the venue's response was. Unfortunately at this point the twitarist has indicated his refusal to cooperate so it seems that a confrontation is brewing... unless OP continues to let the twitarist call the shots...

It wasn't clear from the OP whether the conflict date was just something proposed by the bar or was a confirmed gig date. The "agreement" I had in mind was his agreeing with the band A guitarist that band A dates would take priority, including canceling on already-booked band B dates that conflicted. If the conflict date was proposed and not confirmed, then I agree that he may as well go ahead and ask for a different one. If it was confirmed, since this is the very situation he made the ill-advised agreement with the guitarist for, then I would say he should abide by that - this one time. And make clear that he is not going to continue doing so.

 

[Muttleybass]

I won't get into the guitarard issue but rather propose an option for you and your conflicted date. Find out what bands are playing at that club either the weekend before or after that conflicted date. Contact them and offer to swap dates. I recently had to do this in my current band in order to take advantage of another booking opportunity. Most bands if they have the notice should be fine to just switch a date - assuming of course they have the availability to do that on their calendar.. Hey it's worth a shot.

That's all I was trying to do, only through the bar manager. The date wasn't quite carved in stone as it was only proposed the day before. Guitarist got upset that I even asked.

I think when I agreed with the guitarist to set Band A as a priority, it was under duress. I agreed because the guitar player was quite upset that I had taken on another band, like I had just broken it to my wife I was cheating on her or something. So I felt I had to keep the peace and tell him what he wanted to hear. I regret that mistake, but I have held up my end. Little did I know he wouldn't even entertain the idea of even compromised the least little bit. THAT, to me, is a control issue. THAT is what I have a problem with.

 

[marmadaddy]

The real problem you're asking about here wasn't about the date or scheduling conflicts, it was about the guitar player in general. What it sounds like is that his attitude and intransigence is starting to get to you and you're wondering if it's worth staying in that band. I was in a similar situation a few years ago with a drummer. Band was playing as much as we wanted, making decent money. I'm not sure if the drummer was slowly getting harder and harder to work with or if my ability to tolerate his drama was slowly decreasing. Either way, I got to a point where I realized I wasn't enjoying being in that band mostly because of him.

I'd recommend talking to the singer and drummer and letting them know that you're about done working with the guitarist, he's sucking the enjoyment out of being in the band for you. Give them the opportunity to decide how they'd like to handle it. If they'd rather stick with the guitarist and get a new bass player, you've got band B. If they don't want to do anything, you get to make a decision.

 

[ColonelZulu]

Here's a question for you:

When you informed Band A about Band B, and guitarist said "As long as Band A takes priority...

If you had said "No, it's going to be more like first come - first served."...

And the guitar player freaked out...

What would have happened?

Would they have fired you?
Would they have said ok, but looked for a substitute to keep them from mission out in gigs?
Would the guitar player have quit?

What were you trying to avoid by expressing with Band A, especially the guitar, some unrealistic expectations?

I've been in multiple bands at one time before, but it's usually because they were vastly different situations. There was rarely a conflict because one band would be mainly club gigs, one was corporate functions, and the other was more festival oriented.

 

[fishdreams]

Obviously you don't get along with the guitar player; but that has little to do with the issue, regardless of how big of a jerk he is. If i am in a band with you and you mess with an already agreed gig because another one pays you a few bucks more, I'd feel perfectly right to call your commitment into question, since is was apparently agreed upon that the band I am in has priority.

I'd feel the best approach to stand up for yourself would be to take a step back, depersonalize the issue, and clarify for yourself first what it is that YOU want (for example, first come first serve instead of one band taking priority over the other). Then tell band A exactly that and see what happens.

 

[Joebone]

If you told A they were the priority, best to stick to that for what's booked so far but announce that your policy is changing. If you do the booking then I don't blame you for checking on date alternatives, and do think your guitarist was a bit out on this, but OTOH, he seems first to have heard of it from the club owner rather than you, which probably exacerbated his control issues.

You definitely have a systemic problem brewing with the guitarist. Is he irreplaceable? I note you are in Vancouver, so its not like you're stuck with the only good guitarist in Podunk. I'd suggest a discussion with your other members about the overall dynamic with the guitarist and their desires for the direction of the band, then go from there.

 

[yodedude2]

... Little did I know he wouldn't even entertain the idea of even compromised the least little bit. THAT, to me, is a control issue. THAT is what I have a problem with.

agreed. from your posts, guitarist 'a' sounds very predictable. methinks it will happen again unless you act to change the situation.

 

[mellowinman]

It wasn't clear from the OP whether the conflict date was just something proposed by the bar or was a confirmed gig date. The "agreement" I had in mind was his agreeing with the band A guitarist that band A dates would take priority, including canceling on already-booked band B dates that conflicted. If the conflict date was proposed and not confirmed, then I agree that he may as well go ahead and ask for a different one. If it was confirmed, since this is the very situation he made the ill-advised agreement with the guitarist for, then I would say he should abide by that - this one time. And make clear that he is not going to continue doing so.

The important part is bolded.

 

[Chuck King]

The real problem you're asking about here wasn't about the date or scheduling conflicts, it was about the guitar player in general.

Yeah, what this is really about is that it appears you are in a band with a small-minded douchebag. It also appears that he's after something different from the band than you.

From your story, I perceive a guy who is in desperate need of feeling important. Why else would he care about moving a date? It's not about the date---as you said, if you'd be unavailable for any other reason, no problem. I suspect that the other band is such an issue for him because you taking a gig with another band is sending him the message that there's something else out there that's as or more important than him. Playing songs he doesn't like = somebody else's preferences are more important than his. He has invested a certain amount of his identity and sense of self-worth in being a big shot guitarist in a band (pathetic as that may be when the band in question is a hobby project) and anything or anybody that suggests that his band (and his role in it) is not important is hitting him where he lives.

Everything you've said he's done is completely unreasonable, from any objective perspective. But he's not going to change---that would mean accepting that he's not the most important guy around, which is probably his main reason for being in the band in the first place. If he was your best friend or an unparalleled virtuoso, and/or Band A was raking in piles of cash, it might be worth sticking with him and stroking his ego to keep Band A going, but when a fungible commodity like a classic-rock-covers guitar player is making a hobby band not fun, there's no justification for putting up with his crap.

 

[crucislancer]

Last July a female singer friend who I’d known for years called me up because her bass player died. I wasn’t going to join them, but after a couple of fill in gigs, they asked, said they’d work around my schedule and they seemed like a lot of fun. More typical classic rock. They play a weekend once a month, plus a few other event gigs. The guitar player is weak, but adequate. Singer has a few timing issues. The drummer is good, but has a few tempo and memory problems. Still, great guys.

Quick question: What are the reasons that you joined Band B?

 

[Muttleybass]

The important part is bolded.

Yep... Gotta be a change.

Quick question: What are the reasons that you joined Band B?

I filled in for two dates, which turned into 8. When they couldn't find anyone else they liked, so I was drafted. I was having fun, it was low pressure and they had better gigs... even though the band wasn't as good. Drummer is awesome at getting gigs. I wanted to play more.

Kinda begs the question... Better band? or better gigs? Maybe we'll save that for another thread.

 

[Muttleybass]

Here's a question for you:

When you informed Band A about Band B, and guitarist said "As long as Band A takes priority...

If you had said "No, it's going to be more like first come - first served."...

And the guitar player freaked out...

What would have happened?

Would they have fired you?
Would they have said ok, but looked for a substitute to keep them from mission out in gigs?
Would the guitar player have quit?

What were you trying to avoid by expressing with Band A, especially the guitar, some unrealistic expectations?

I've been in multiple bands at one time before, but it's usually because they were vastly different situations. There was rarely a conflict because one band would be mainly club gigs, one was corporate functions, and the other was more festival oriented.

I believed, and still do, he would have given me an ultimatum. Either I would have to quit Band B, or he would quit band A. When we had our chat, he was pretty annoyed. In hindsight, I probably should have stuck to my guns, but we've put a ton of work into this band. We're tight, have a different set list and play challenging songs that we rip apart. It's not like Band A can find a sub. 6 years is an eternity.

Too much drama for a hobby that's supposed to give me joy. At the moment, I feel like just packing both bands in and try and find something better.

 

[Gaolee]

1. First, Fire Everyone
2. Then, Fire Yourself
3. Pour a nice Beverage

That's part of the Charles Mingus solution. The rest is to challenge another member of the band to a knife fight on stage. When the member in question doesn't have a knife (and neither do you), go across the street to the hardware store, buy two knives, bring them back, give one to the band member in question, THEN challenge him or her to a knife fight. That kind of thing ought to solve the problem, plus it a makes for good theater and good gig stories all around. I don't see a downside here.

 

[crucislancer]

I filled in for two dates, which turned into 8. When they couldn't find anyone else they liked, I was drafted. I was having fun, it was low pressure and they had better gigs... even though the band wasn't as good. Drummer is awesome at getting gigs. I wanted to play more.

Kinda begs the question... Better band? or better gigs? Maybe we'll save that for another thread.

Ah, ok. I don't usually play with more than one band at a time, the only time I have was to fill in, such as yourself, but in the end I go back to the primary band, and the reason for this is that I should be able to have my needs met with the primary band, though I am not looking at this from a monetary angle (perhaps you are, I don't know). My band needs are excellent musicianship, lots of gigs, fun but willing to work hard, and chance to contribute in the creative process (I do mostly originals), usually in that order. Money isn't a huge factor for me as long as I can cover my costs, which is usually the case.

So, given that, if another band wanted me to play with them, and I felt like I was getting more of the things that I wanted from the new band, then I would have to think long and hard about why I was still with the first band if I'm not getting my needs met, and unless I thought there wasn't any hope, I would bring my concerns to the first band and say "hey, I'm not getting everything I want out of this band, can we do something about this or do I need to leave?". Obviously all of this is just from my perspective, which is different from yours, but that's how I would go about it.

To bring it back around to your situation (sorry for the long winded explanation) maybe if you had those things that Band B gives you in Band A, you wouldn't be in this position. Better and more gigs, fun and low pressure.......maybe those things should be in Band A? If there is something in Band A that you can change to help give you more of the things that you have in Band B, what would that be?

Of course, now that it's all said and done, perhaps the best thing to do is just tell Band A that you are first come, first serve, and if the guitarist doesn't like it, that's too bad. You can walk anytime you want, don't let someone's crap attitude get you down.