Band on-stage communication when using IEMs?

[soulstew]

The classic country/Americana band I'm in is dipping its toe in the IEM waters. Two gigs ago our steel player and I used Rolls personal mixers to mix the monitor feed from the PA with our own mics and instruments. It was my first experience with IEMs and I loved it. The bandleader had to ask me to turn the bass up, as I didn't realize it was low out in the room, and I was careful to ask regularly whether my vocals were at the right level, but other than that, it was great. We do lots of three-part harmonies, and I loved being able to hear myself without straining, and I sang better with less effort.

The downside, though, was that those of us with EIMs were not able to hear any onstage communication unless it was in the mics, so when the bandleader asked a question or gave an instruction, the steel player and I couldn't hear it, which was frustrating. We don't have a lot of chit-chat among us between songs, but sometimes we need to communicate amongst ourselves without the audience hearing it. Having us incommunicado is not working.

Is the only option for us to pull one of the IEMs out between songs? I'm interested in whether anyone else has found this a problem, and if so how they solved it.

 

[drpepper]

Is the only option for us to pull one of the IEMs out between songs? I'm interested in whether anyone else has found this a problem, and if so how they solved it.

For the most part, I deal with this in a variety of ways...by talking loud and close, hand signaling (rarely works well), attempted lip-reading (I'm never able to read lips like other people seem to be) and popping an earbud when all else fails. But really, I don't generally have a problem with it to the point that simply putting my ear close doesn't work well enough. Also, I notice that when I'm on a quiet stage, someone just being in the vicinity of a mic gives just enough to make things they say audible.

On the most basic end of actual solutions is setting up a single talkback mic (a mic that's only in monitor feeds). A band I sub with regularly just puts a vocal mic on a stand that sits off to the side that's most convenient for the guitar/bl to walk over to. It's limited, but effective and doesn't really risk mistakes of not switching something on or off.

At the other end of things, you can set up a full talkback system where everyone who might communicate can switch their mic between regular operation and monitor only. Potentially lots of additional cable runs, mixer channels used (each mic needs two channels) and some cost.

 

[EastCoastThump]

In my main band, the BL is the drummer. He sets up a talkback mic (floor tom side) that feeds only the IEMs, as well as a vocal/MC mic (on the hats side) that feeds FOH.

 

[soulstew]

Thanks @drpepper and @derrico1!

This is what I was wondering. We talked about having a talkback mic that was not in the mains but weren't sure if that would be adequate. In our current situation, that would still be amplified in the monitor speakers used by two of the non-IEM-wearing members, so wouldn't be ideal but may be a stop-gap measure. If we all had IEMS, it would at least be silent for the audience, but the downside would be that he wouldn't be able to hear what were saying. We could have more talkback mics, I guess.

There seems to be no perfect fix, but a single talkback mic might be the ticket for now. Or just popping out an IEM when necessary.

Thanks again for the info!

 

[Wasnex]

I have run systems where one or more extra mics with a push to talk switch were used for communication on the band stand.


There are variety of footpedals that can be used for switching. However, make sure and read what the switch actually does. I believe some can be configured more than one way.

This page should explain: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Other possible options:
ProCo Power Mute Active Selectable Microphone Muting Switch (proacousticsusa.com)
MM11 Pro Switchable Mic Mute/Talk Professional Microphone Switch | Rolls Corporation - Real Sound
Sign Off - RapcoHorizon

Check for better prices.

 

[EastCoastThump]

a talkback mic ...that would still be amplified in the monitor speakers used by two of the non-IEM-wearing members, so wouldn't be ideal

If you keep the talkback out of the wedges, one of the band's IEM wearers can often relay the audible to your wedge-dependent bandmate(s). We do this sometimes if we're working far enough from home base that we're hiring horn players for whom the job is local. Horns can be picky about IEMs; so if a one-off player in the horn section is on-book and working from a wedge, another horn player—or the band's keys player on that side—will pass them audibles.

That's not ideal because you can't relay every kind of audible in real-time, but it beats having stage-wedge talkback wafting over the punters in the front. And some of the in-song audibles that are hard to relay (for example, "cut this song at the end of this chorus and finish on the tag") can be signaled musically, as long as everyone's listening.

 

[soulstew]

If you keep the talkback out of the wedges, one of the band's IEM wearers can often relay the audible to your wedge-dependent bandmate(s). We do this sometimes if we're working far enough from home base that we're hiring horn players for whom the job is local. Horns can be picky about IEMs; so if a one-off player in the horn section is on-book and working from a wedge, another horn player—or the band's keys player on that side—will pass them audibles.

That's not ideal because you can't relay every kind of audible in real-time, but it beats having stage-wedge talkback wafting over the punters in the front. And some of the in-song audibles that are hard to relay (for example, "cut this song at the end of this chorus and finish on the tag") can be signaled musically, as long as everyone's listening.

On our simple, old-school PA, I don't think there is a way to get the talkback into the IEMs without them being in the wedges, unfortunately. The Rolls mixers are fed with the monitor feed from the PA head, and there is no other feed available to tap into--no aux, for example. I agree, though that we want to avoid having our internal conversation wafting out of the wedges.

Thanks everyone for the great, helpful responses so far. I've gleaned a bit from each one. My modest goal is to get everyone using IEMS with the Rolls mixers (as opposed to buying a new PA, which nobody wants to shell out for) and then to have one or two omnidirectional talkback mics on stage with switches so we can communicate when we need to, but not fill our ears with stage wash when we're playing.

 

[sawzalot]

We would set up ambience mics that would double as talkback mics, only routed to our IEMs. That way we could get the sound of the room in our ears and also be able to talk to each other.

 

[micguy]

If you have a mic for the music director (or whoever is calling cues, song changes, etc), that works well during a performance. During sound check, the challenge is talking with the monitor guy - if you do this enough, you will develop obvious signals to use for that - it's not too hard.

You can also set up a foot switch to take the lead singer/bandleader's mic out of the main and into your ears - that also works.

 

[darwin-bass]

Our church system uses talkback mics (with switches) for sound plus drum, bass & piano since those folks don't sing. Others are singing so their mics are already in our ears. The 4 talkback mics are all on a talkback channel in our personal mixers.

All talk happens only at rehearsal. On rare occasions the sound person may need to talk to the band during a service ("Joe - check your cable") but that's it.

 

[Mastermold]

The classic country/Americana band I'm in is dipping its toe in the IEM waters. Two gigs ago our steel player and I used Rolls personal mixers to mix the monitor feed from the PA with our own mics and instruments. It was my first experience with IEMs and I loved it. The bandleader had to ask me to turn the bass up, as I didn't realize it was low out in the room, and I was careful to ask regularly whether my vocals were at the right level, but other than that, it was great. We do lots of three-part harmonies, and I loved being able to hear myself without straining, and I sang better with less effort.

The downside, though, was that those of us with EIMs were not able to hear any onstage communication unless it was in the mics, so when the bandleader asked a question or gave an instruction, the steel player and I couldn't hear it, which was frustrating. We don't have a lot of chit-chat among us between songs, but sometimes we need to communicate amongst ourselves without the audience hearing it. Having us incommunicado is not working.

Is the only option for us to pull one of the IEMs out between songs? I'm interested in whether anyone else has found this a problem, and if so how they solved it.

Use the force.

 

[EastCoastThump]

My modest goal is to get everyone using IEMS with the Rolls mixers (as opposed to buying a new PA, which nobody wants to shell out for) and then to have one or two omnidirectional talkback mics on stage with switches so we can communicate when we need to, but not fill our ears with stage wash when we're playing.

In the meantime, be careful. There are ways to game this with an omni for stage-wide talkback, but unless your stage and wedge volumes are church-mouse quiet, in this case it definitely seems like courting trouble.

If an omni talkback is sensitive enough (and gained-up/compressed enough) to "hear" everyone from across the stage, I'd expect that when also run through wedges it will pull *hard* towards feedback.

You don't want that in your wedges, and you definitely don't want that in your IEMs.

 

[drpepper]

goal...to have one or two omnidirectional talkback mics on stage with switches so we can communicate when we need to, but not fill our ears with stage wash when we're playing.

I'd suggest that if you do go this way, try it without a switch first and see how the open mic(s) does in actual practice. As @sawzalot pointed out, an open mic can have a second function of ambient pickup. The main reason I'd suggest trying it before spending money on a switch is that you might be surprised at how little a typical vocal mic will really pick up. I made a brief go at trying to set up ambient micing with my IEM rig and found that mics (not shotgun) picked up much less at smaller increasing distances than I had assumed they would (things have to be closer to be picked up in a usable way). Think about it...you can have open vocal mics all over the stage, but you don't hear voices or instruments at any significant level unless they are fairly close.

 

[tmvt]

Get a switch on whatever mic you want to be able to give directions on, run the signal when the switch is on to only the IEMs.