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Band running their own sound tips?

I just joined a cover band doing 3 sets at a local sports bar. The band just purchased a PA (JBL tops and subs, X18Air, DBX Drive Rack) and everyone is running directly into the PA, electronic drums, guitarist with an amp emulator, bass (me) running on a sansamp and one vocal.

I'm the new guy so I don't get much say but we are playing our first show in this configuration with no sound guy.

Now I'm sure this can be done but it just seems like we would benefit from getting a good shootout of our new system with a sound guy before we go gig.

Any tips for some good basic EQ settings for instruments or overall to help us sound better?
 
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Rule #1:

Make it clear to everyone in the band, especially your fussier band mates, that "set it and forget it" means "forget it" even when the mix isn't "perfect." I can not stand band members giving me all kinds of stupid faces, smoke signals, and flagging me down mid-performance because they wish something was louder or quieter in their monitors, or someone walked out front and wishes the cowbell was a smidge louder. Just...don't. I have an instrument to play and singing to do, please just let the show go on without numerous minor complaints and interruptions in the momentum, which the audience is very sensitive to and puts a real stink on the band. Get it as close as you can during a thorough soundcheck and then deal with and ignore any small imperfections that arise. Sheesh, I have to suck it up with a bad mix half of the time even when we have a dedicated sound tech, so we can surely gut it out until the end of the set to tweak things.

One big favor you can all do in that regard is control your stage volume and don't ramp it up into a volume war. People will lose their monitor mixes, your FOH will be shot to hell, and chaos results. Running everything with V-amps through the board should cure most of that, at least until someone figures out the workaround and starts to ramp it up during the performance. "Set it and forget it" applies to stage volume as well.

If this is new to you and the band, definitely plan a dress rehearsal with your system to form a game plan and get a good grip on it before you arrive at the venue. Take lots of notes about procedures and settings. Give yourselves plenty of time for set up and sound check as every environment has the potential to introduce some unpleasant mixing challenges.

It can be done if you all apply common sense and discipline. I ran one of the more popular dance/party cover bands in town for about four years often running sound from stage in public venues and always at private events. And we had a V-Drum player, and let me tell you what a godsend that is, especially if you can get him to tweak his kit in a pre-mix and just send you a stereo L-R output. Make sure everyone on stage can hear drums well in monitors, sometimes e-drums get lost on stage.

Unless you want to squander countless hours chasing perfection, encourage everyone to get their sound right at the source, their instrument and signal path. Singers need to know how to work a microphone and guitar/keys players need to control their own volume with appropriate clean/distorted/solo settings. Combine that with flat EQ settings at the board as much as possible - it's amazing how often that does the trick. With time you will learn what truly requires subtractive/additive EQ for each channel and the room, but that can be like chasing your tail and a huge time suck if you get too wrapped up in it. Remember: You also have a show to perform, so don't waste time and energy and risk frustration right before downbeat. KISS.
 
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The band just purchased a PA (JBL tops and subs, X18Air, DBX Drive Rack)
good stuff but not sure what you need the driverack for.
Any tips for some good basic EQ settings for instruments or overall to help us sound better?
so is anybody in the band a soundguy with a clue? if not it's gonna be a struggle.

two key things are:

get the system initially "balanced" by running break music through it with no EQ anywhere then adjusting the tops and subs levels until it sounds right, not too tinny or too boomy. only then should you kick in the board's EQ to adjust for room sound or whatever.

be sure to use the channel HPF knobs on everything except the kick, bass and maybe the floor tom, rolled up to at least 100Hz. that gets the mud and rumble out of all the stuff that doesn't use those frequencies.
 
Rule #1:

Make it clear to everyone in the band, especially your fussier band mates, that "set it and forget it" means "forget it" even when the mix isn't "perfect." I can not stand band members giving me all kinds of stupid faces, smoke signals, and flagging me down mid-performance because they wish something was louder or quieter in their monitors, or someone walked out front and wishes the cowbell was a smidge louder. Just...don't. I have an instrument to play and singing to do, please just let the show go on without numerous minor complaints and interruptions in the momentum, which the audience is very sensitive to and puts a real stink on the band. Get it as close as you can during a thorough soundcheck and then deal with and ignore any small imperfections that arise. Sheesh, I have to suck it up with a bad mix half of the time even when we have a dedicated sound tech, so we can surely gut it out until the end of the set to tweak things.

One big favor you can all do in that regard is control your stage volume and don't ramp it up into a volume war. People will lose their monitor mixes, your FOH will be shot to hell, and chaos results. Running everything with V-amps through the board should cure most of that, at least until someone figures out the workaround and starts to ramp it up during the performance. "Set it and forget it" applies to stage volume as well.

Unless you want to squander countless hours chasing perfection, encourage everyone to get their sound right at the source, their instrument and signal path. Singers need to know how to work a microphone and guitar/keys players need to control their own volume with appropriate clean/distorted/solo settings. Combine that with flat EQ settings at the board as much as possible - it's amazing how often that does the trick. With time you will learn what truly requires subtractive/additive EQ for each channel and the room, but that can be like chasing your tail and a huge time suck if you get too wrapped up in it. Remember: You also have a show to perform, so don't waste time and energy and risk frustration right before downbeat. KISS.

This is great stuff (yes, I trimmed some of it). I would add only that this needs to be done at the outset of any band project beginnings. I just went through a "re-imagining" of my role in my main band (Backing a country music singer) if I have to be in charge of the monitors (A lot of times, we bring our monitor rig and hand the soundco one side of our split). We had to re-introduce the notion that I'm the friggin' BASS PLAYER and not the soundguy/punching bag when things aren't going quite peachy. I would have probably avoided this if I had established up front my primary role and to get another monitor guy if they didn't like my work.

Great post!
 
Besides going wireless and venturing out front, you can try sending the FOH mix to your IEMs. Even that is not a true reproduction the room. After trying to mix from stage myself, I’ve decided I just need to find somebody to run FOH...even if I have to pay them. Good luck if you have a drummer who changes his V-Drum patches every song, or a guitarist who uses a variety of effects. If you want to sound great, get help.
 
good stuff but not sure what you need the driverack for.

so is anybody in the band a soundguy with a clue? if not it's gonna be a struggle.

two key things are:

get the system initially "balanced" by running break music through it with no EQ anywhere then adjusting the tops and subs levels until it sounds right, not too tinny or too boomy. only then should you kick in the board's EQ to adjust for room sound or whatever.

be sure to use the channel HPF knobs on everything except the kick, bass and maybe the floor tom, rolled up to at least 100Hz. that gets the mud and rumble out of all the stuff that doesn't use those frequencies.

The guitarist who owns the PA seems to have some idea what he's doing. I honestly don't know much about what he's doing on the ipad. He uses the driverack and an RTA mic to reduce feedback and "tune the room" as he calls it.

I've done sound engineering a few times but not regularly. I have a decent idea what I'm doing so I'll probably take a bigger role in the setup and soundcheck but honestly I'd rather just hire a sound guy.
 
RTA mic to reduce feedback and "tune the room" as he calls it.
ugh, the worst gigs i've ever done were when a soundguy blasted pink noise into a room and "tuned" it with an RTA mic by trying to EQ the result until it showed as "flat". it always sounded horrible.

RTA stuff is good for spotting obvious "hot" frequencies that want to feed back or just dominate, but you can't use it to EQ the whole thing. move the RTA mic 5 feet and the whole EQ curve changes.

the proper use of that idea is with much more complicated "impulse response" software like SMAART, where you're measuring time delays and phase response, not just EQ frequencies.
I honestly don't know much about what he's doing on the ipad.
you can change that!

make sure what mixer you guys are using then go get the control app for your own tablet (they're all free) and take some time to mess with it at home in demo mode to see how it works; some youtube tutorials wouldn't be out of line.
 
I have a decent idea what I'm doing so I'll probably take a bigger role in the setup and soundcheck but honestly I'd rather just hire a sound guy.
And make sure you have plan for whst each does during the PA load in/out and setup. If the don't want to help out, they give up part of their pay.

And, when sound checking, make sure they understand to watch you and use a hand signal, like a closed fist, to stop the song to give directions for and to make adjustments.

If a band mate needs to stop the song, they csn signal you with the same hand sign.
 
I run sound professionally and also play bass.

One piece of advice would be to run sound not as a bass player, but as a sound guy. Sounds dumb but let me explain. A bass player might have the influence to have too much bass mix, just as a guitarist might have the guitar mix too loud or a vocalist can add too much vocal and the band would be faint in the background. Try and mix sound as you would hear it on an mp3 but live.

EQ Tips:
Bass and drums, I always start with drum eq'ing as its has the most sound structure. The goal is to have different EQ for the bass drum and the bass guitar.
Example: Bass drum boost either 60hz or 80hz, cut mids and boost highs. It will provide punch of 60/80 and beater attack of highs. Bass guitar should be opposite of bass drum. Like not boosted in 60/80 but higher hz or lower. Whichever works for thr venue. Add low cuts to each drum/tom. It will help with boominess. If possible add gating.

Vocals low cut or hpf of 100-105hz should be ok.
Guitar low cut or hpf of 90-95hz, boost a lil mids.

Theres tons of more EQ'ing that should be done, but those are just small tips.
 
I run sound professionally and also play bass.

One piece of advice would be to run sound not as a bass player, but as a sound guy. Sounds dumb but let me explain. A bass player might have the influence to have too much bass mix, just as a guitarist might have the guitar mix too loud or a vocalist can add too much vocal and the band would be faint in the background. Try and mix sound as you would hear it on an mp3 but live.

EQ Tips:
Bass and drums, I always start with drum eq'ing as its has the most sound structure. The goal is to have different EQ for the bass drum and the bass guitar.
Example: Bass drum boost either 60hz or 80hz, cut mids and boost highs. It will provide punch of 60/80 and beater attack of highs. Bass guitar should be opposite of bass drum. Like not boosted in 60/80 but higher hz or lower. Whichever works for thr venue. Add low cuts to each drum/tom. It will help with boominess. If possible add gating.

Vocals low cut or hpf of 100-105hz should be ok.
Guitar low cut or hpf of 90-95hz, boost a lil mids.

Theres tons of more EQ'ing that should be done, but those are just small tips.

hey, thanks for the tips. do you have any advice on -

- how to separate "mid level" things - guitars, vocals and backing tracks?
- how to avoid boominess in bass while still getting full and sufficient low end?
- how much effect should be on a live vocal (from the desk)?
- in a "trio" setup (1 x guitar, 1 x bass, 1 x drumkit) along with backing tracks - should anything be panned or should everything be dead centre?

thank you in advance. I've already made a note of what you've said so far!
 
hey, thanks for the tips. do you have any advice on -

- how to separate "mid level" things - guitars, vocals and backing tracks?
- how to avoid boominess in bass while still getting full and sufficient low end?
- how much effect should be on a live vocal (from the desk)?
- in a "trio" setup (1 x guitar, 1 x bass, 1 x drumkit) along with backing tracks - should anything be panned or should everything be dead centre?

thank you in advance. I've already made a note of what you've said so far!

easy trick to avoid boomy bass is to set a narrow eq band, boost it +12db and just sweep it, until you find that nasty boomy part. now, cut it by 2-6db. keep in mind that bass guitar should be a bit boomy, but not too much. Lows and fullnes is a matter of space in the mix, if your kick is overlaping your bass then you should separate them. either make the drummer tune the kick hihger or lower or just boost/cut it. also, if guitar has too much lows, that makes also some nasty issues in the mix. guitar should have at least 90hz lowcut, so anything below that should be dead and gone.

bass and kick should be panned center, you can pan snare a bit on the side, but center is also not bad with toms you should pan them 0-50% as they are positioned. best trick for the guitar is to have two signals, and pan one 50%R and other 50%L , now ideal solution is to have different boxes on each signal path, easily done if you have a amp sim or something like that. if your guitarist uses "real amp" then you can use two mics and delay the one signal to be 1-3ms late, be carefull, they can cancel each other out, do it by the ear.

best trick to get guitar width is for one signal to be late, but it's advisable that those signals should not be carbon copies of each other. so one can be a bit more overdirven, other cleaner. you can also just duplicate clean signal of the guitar and do the same so you have 4 signals

overheads should be panned a bit harder, just like they are set on the drums, so if one cymbal is right, pan it a bit right. just don't pan things all the way. 50% is imho max if the venue is big. for smaller venues i'd go as far as 75% , also considering many other factors. panning pushes or pulls the signal in the mix. But then again, experiment from there on.

last but REALLY important thing is compression and limiters. use them! compressor should be present on every signal, not too harsh, just enough to soften the peaks. test it out

on the master track you should put compressor again, just to bite of the peaks, nothing over the top. for that "over the top" perfect spice you should use limiter. also, make sure that each signal on input doesn't go over 4-6db on normal playing, while peaks shoudn't go over 3db. after you got all of that down, it's just a matter of playing around and finding your own preferences.

last trick is to play the whole mix mono. if you can hear each instrument, then it's ok. if your guitar , overhead, vocals or something else gets audibly quieter compared to stereo mix, you did something wrong or they are canceling each other out, so try phase reverse for oposite chanel. So, for expample,guitar Left phase on if guitar is much quieter in the mono mix. If that doesn't help, then you should dial back on the pan. also, be aware that if you have two signals and one is delayed, it can cancel each outher out, especialy if paned and then mixed mono. in that case, don't panic, just slowly adjust the delay and pan.


sorry for my english. ;)
 
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For a lot of small gigs it is not a big deal if your gear sounds good to begin with. I usually try to run everything pretty flat and move the PA speakers around if I have feedback issues which with one vocal mic should not be too hard. I try to angle the PA enough that we can hear a fair bit of the house sound. We don't use monitors. I only use a little reverb, if required.
 
The nice thing about these digital systems is that once you get dialed in, it only takes minimal tweaks gig to gig. The main thing is that people need to hold their levels, even if the monitor mix isn't perfect, and have an expectation that a less than perfect monitor mix is something that happens. Hiring someone to run the tablet for a couple gigs is wise.
 
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All good advice for getting a good sound here. One thing I would recommend gear wise us to get a dedicated wifi router for the xr18. I've had multiple bands use them for a monitoring mixer and have major wifi connection problems. When I do sound I have a toolbox with my wireless IEM and a wifi router mounted in it and it has saved bands with these mixers a few times. The behringer mixers are great bang for buck but don't have very good wifi routers so they dont have much range or a strong signal when its needed.
 
easy trick to avoid boomy bass is to set a narrow eq band, boost it +12db and just sweep it, until you find that nasty boomy part. now, cut it by 2-6db. keep in mind that bass guitar should be a bit boomy, but not too much. Lows and fullnes is a matter of space in the mix, if your kick is overlaping your bass then you should separate them. either make the drummer tune the kick hihger or lower or just boost/cut it. also, if guitar has too much lows, that makes also some nasty issues in the mix. guitar should have at least 90hz lowcut, so anything below that should be dead and gone.

bass and kick should be panned center, you can pan snare a bit on the side, but center is also not bad with toms you should pan them 0-50% as they are positioned. best trick for the guitar is to have two signals, and pan one 50%R and other 50%L , now ideal solution is to have different boxes on each signal path, easily done if you have a amp sim or something like that. if your guitarist uses "real amp" then you can use two mics and delay the one signal to be 1-3ms late, be carefull, they can cancel each other out, do it by the ear.

best trick to get guitar width is for one signal to be late, but it's advisable that those signals should not be carbon copies of each other. so one can be a bit more overdirven, other cleaner. you can also just duplicate clean signal of the guitar and do the same so you have 4 signals

overheads should be panned a bit harder, just like they are set on the drums, so if one cymbal is right, pan it a bit right. just don't pan things all the way. 50% is imho max if the venue is big. for smaller venues i'd go as far as 75% , also considering many other factors. panning pushes or pulls the signal in the mix. But then again, experiment from there on.

last but REALLY important thing is compression and limiters. use them! compressor should be present on every signal, not too harsh, just enough to soften the peaks. test it out

on the master track you should put compressor again, just to bite of the peaks, nothing over the top. for that "over the top" perfect spice you should use limiter. also, make sure that each signal on input doesn't go over 4-6db on normal playing, while peaks shoudn't go over 3db. after you got all of that down, it's just a matter of playing around and finding your own preferences.

last trick is to play the whole mix mono. if you can hear each instrument, then it's ok. if your guitar , overhead, vocals or something else gets audibly quieter compared to stereo mix, you did something wrong or they are canceling each other out, so try phase reverse for oposite chanel. So, for expample,guitar Left phase on if guitar is much quieter in the mono mix. If that doesn't help, then you should dial back on the pan. also, be aware that if you have two signals and one is delayed, it can cancel each outher out, especialy if paned and then mixed mono. in that case, don't panic, just slowly adjust the delay and pan.


sorry for my english. ;)

your english is very good my dude.

thank you so much for the tips. super helpful. made a note of these too, I'll test em out next gig.
 
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We use the same system with the exception of the Driverack and live drums. I assume that you are using IEMs which will take a good bit of getting used to, but just try not to think about how different an experience it is until you get the hang of it. Each band member should have control of their monitor mix via the XAir control app. Without that there is great potential for someone to adjust volume to the main mix which will cause problems.

We tried jumping in with the system a week after I picked it up and it went fairly well. A decent mix and not too many problems, but it did take about an extra 45 minutes getting the whole thing set up, it sounds like you've got at least a quick run through behind you and that will certainly help a bit.

I will say that after the initial 4 gigs we used the system we had 3 weeks without gigs and used them to do 4 rehearsals solely focused on getting the system dialed in and getting the band into the correct mindset for using it. Additionally, I used the USB recording functionality to get raw audio of everything in a DAW for playback through the mixer so that I was able to dial in the mix exactly as I want it at home. This is all saved and I shouldn't have to touch it much from gig to gig, just use the EQ on the mains to dial in the room (and the nice thing here is that once we play a room I've also got the EQ for that venue saved as well.)

Good luck with it!