Band running their own sound tips?

[One_Dude]

I am both a sound man and a musician. One of the things I try to always avoid is running sound from the stage. I know that bands want to save money and feel like they have ultimate control over their sound, but sound run from the stage will never match what using a good sound tech will produce.

The bottom line is that a performance is never a set it and forget it situation. The sound tech should be making small adjustments throughout the performance to maintain balance and volume levels. I know that bands who pooh-pooh the use of sound techs don't want to hear this, but you must be able to hear exactly what the audience hears and be able to alter that sound in order to get the absolute best outcome. You will never be able to do that from the stage while also playing your instrument.

Are there bad sound techs out there? Sure there are, but they usually don't survive long in the business, and yes the good ones want to receive an appropriate fee for their work. But ask yourself this question; how many national acts run their own sound from the stage. I don't know of any. They realize that the compromise that is required when you run your own sound from the stage does not serve the performance well.

Thump on,

One_Dude

 

[sawzalot]

I gig with an x32 Rack and PA and used to have an XAir prior to the x32. For a while I tried to run sound from the stage, with limited results. It's REALLY hard to get anything other than a basic mix and I wouldn't expect anything other than that. What you CAN expect, and absolutely need to plan for, is unexpected feedback. The DriveRack may help you there, and I hope it does, because when you're on stage playing and mixing via ipad it's almost impossible to jump on the faders fast enough to control feedback, even if you're familiar with the app. If you're using wedges for monitors it's a real problem because each wedge becomes a source of feedback. I wound up spending so much time on the PA duties that it really detracted from my enjoyment of playing. To be fair the XAir app is much simpler and easier to manage from the stage vs the x32 app, but still the issue exists.

My suggestion would be to get the feel for the PA and find someone who's minimally competent and willing to learn to run sound for you. Treat them like another band member and give them an equal split of the pay, it is money very well spent.

Tom

 

[john_g]

I have taken up the duties of running sound in my band too. I bought a digital mixer (presonus 16.4.2) and what is good it they have a bunch of presets to get up and running. I still need to tweak but its a good starting point. Once you gig a bunch of times, it will get easier...we are in that process right now. As other have said, go wireless with your bass so you can go out front every now and again to check the mix. Also, if possible with your mixer, use an iPad to mix out front during soundcheck.

I usually start with the drums, get input levels set right, then volume, then any EQing. Then, while drums are playing an actual song, i start playing bass to layer that in. Then guitars, then vocals. Tweak as needed.

My biggest PITA is the in-ears and monitor mixes. Like electracoyote said above, I get stink-eyes and interruptions from band members because they want something up or down. At the last gig, our singer was using his new in-ear system and kept saying between each song..."I cant hear myself in my ears". I had him all the way up on the board. Finally i said, "do you have a gain or volume on your receiver pack? Because your all the way up". He goes..."oh, wait. Ok, there we go". Oy. And, then while i was trying to dial some things in between songs, the drummer, head down, starts the next song. I finally screamed at him that he needs to at least do a visual check to make sure we are good to start (we are not completely dialed in with this setup yet so i occasionally need tweaking time)/

Ideally, if you knew a person that could run the sound on your mixer for a gig or two to get things set up, that would be best. But IMHO, it just takes getting out there and doing it and it will fall into place. Oh, and yes, hiring a competent sound guy to do it for you at every gig would be great, but for bar/club gigs where youre not making alot of money, it might not be worth it.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Rule #1:

Make it clear to everyone in the band, especially your fussier band mates, that "set it and forget it" means "forget it" even when the mix isn't "perfect." I can not stand band members giving me all kinds of stupid faces, smoke signals, and flagging me down mid-performance because they wish something was louder or quieter in their monitors, or someone walked out front and wishes the cowbell was a smidge louder. Just...don't. I have an instrument to play and singing to do, please just let the show go on without numerous minor complaints and interruptions in the momentum, which the audience is very sensitive to and puts a real stink on the band. Get it as close as you can during a thorough soundcheck and then deal with and ignore any small imperfections that arise. Sheesh, I have to suck it up with a bad mix half of the time even when we have a dedicated sound tech, so we can surely gut it out until the end of the set to tweak things.

One big favor you can all do in that regard is control your stage volume and don't ramp it up into a volume war. People will lose their monitor mixes, your FOH will be shot to hell, and chaos results. Running everything with V-amps through the board should cure most of that, at least until someone figures out the workaround and starts to ramp it up during the performance. "Set it and forget it" applies to stage volume as well.

If this is new to you and the band, definitely plan a dress rehearsal with your system to form a game plan and get a good grip on it before you arrive at the venue. Take lots of notes about procedures and settings. Give yourselves plenty of time for set up and sound check as every environment has the potential to introduce some unpleasant mixing challenges.

It can be done if you all apply common sense and discipline. I ran one of the more popular dance/party cover bands in town for about four years often running sound from stage in public venues and always at private events. And we had a V-Drum player, and let me tell you what a godsend that is, especially if you can get him to tweak his kit in a pre-mix and just send you a stereo L-R output. Make sure everyone on stage can hear drums well in monitors, sometimes e-drums get lost on stage.

Unless you want to squander countless hours chasing perfection, encourage everyone to get their sound right at the source, their instrument and signal path. Singers need to know how to work a microphone and guitar/keys players need to control their own volume with appropriate clean/distorted/solo settings. Combine that with flat EQ settings at the board as much as possible - it's amazing how often that does the trick. With time you will learn what truly requires subtractive/additive EQ for each channel and the room, but that can be like chasing your tail and a huge time suck if you get too wrapped up in it. Remember: You also have a show to perform, so don't waste time and energy and risk frustration right before downbeat. KISS.

This^^is the best argument yet for hiring someone specifically to do sound for your band. Ours is an equal member, he gets paid exactly the same as the rest of us, so rants like this—totally justified, by the way—never have to happen.

 

[filmtex]

Rule #1:

Make it clear to everyone in the band, especially your fussier band mates, that "set it and forget it" means "forget it" even when the mix isn't "perfect." I can not stand band members giving me all kinds of stupid faces, smoke signals, and flagging me down mid-performance because they wish something was louder or quieter in their monitors, or someone walked out front and wishes the cowbell was a smidge louder. Just...don't. I have an instrument to play and singing to do, please just let the show go on without numerous minor complaints and interruptions in the momentum, which the audience is very sensitive to and puts a real stink on the band. Get it as close as you can during a thorough soundcheck and then deal with and ignore any small imperfections that arise. Sheesh, I have to suck it up with a bad mix half of the time even when we have a dedicated sound tech, so we can surely gut it out until the end of the set to tweak things.

One big favor you can all do in that regard is control your stage volume and don't ramp it up into a volume war. People will lose their monitor mixes, your FOH will be shot to hell, and chaos results. Running everything with V-amps through the board should cure most of that, at least until someone figures out the workaround and starts to ramp it up during the performance. "Set it and forget it" applies to stage volume as well.

If this is new to you and the band, definitely plan a dress rehearsal with your system to form a game plan and get a good grip on it before you arrive at the venue. Take lots of notes about procedures and settings. Give yourselves plenty of time for set up and sound check as every environment has the potential to introduce some unpleasant mixing challenges.

It can be done if you all apply common sense and discipline. I ran one of the more popular dance/party cover bands in town for about four years often running sound from stage in public venues and always at private events. And we had a V-Drum player, and let me tell you what a godsend that is, especially if you can get him to tweak his kit in a pre-mix and just send you a stereo L-R output. Make sure everyone on stage can hear drums well in monitors, sometimes e-drums get lost on stage.

Unless you want to squander countless hours chasing perfection, encourage everyone to get their sound right at the source, their instrument and signal path. Singers need to know how to work a microphone and guitar/keys players need to control their own volume with appropriate clean/distorted/solo settings. Combine that with flat EQ settings at the board as much as possible - it's amazing how often that does the trick. With time you will learn what truly requires subtractive/additive EQ for each channel and the room, but that can be like chasing your tail and a huge time suck if you get too wrapped up in it. Remember: You also have a show to perform, so don't waste time and energy and risk frustration right before downbeat. KISS.

Man is THAT great advice. I have been running sound for most of my bands from the stage from many years, and a wireless for my bass and (now) wireless mixing has made the job super easy.
If you can do a dress rehearsal and get everything set, then save the configuration as a template. Then make minor changes to (just) the volume of your mains at the venue and save THAT show for THAT location. You'll really enjoy the next show with everything ready to at recall! I did a last minute show last Saturday and never touched the mix on my MacBook once I got all the mutes set. (We had a sub drummer with who didn't sing and didn't mic his drums because of the venue size-so many channels to mute.) Have fun and remember-pictures or it din't happen. Looking forward to hearing how it went.

 

[filmtex]

This^^is the best argument yet for hiring someone specifically to do sound for your band. Ours is an equal member, he gets paid exactly the same as the rest of us, so rants like this—totally justified, by the way—never have to happen.

I wish that was possible. It's a good idea, but out here in the hinterland of South Texas, there's just not enough pie to cut a piece for a sound person. Glad you guys are able.

 

[Alex O]

+1 for set and forget. If you're in the same room and have a limited input list, roll with presets and maybe bring up the master if the audience is rowdy or bigger than expect.

I work in corporate AV, and for our local venues we've pre-tuned each room and created profiles for our typical mics. It's not identical every time, but it makes setups easier since we have a head start. I could see this easily applied to your situation where you frequent the same venue with limited inputs.

I don't think you need a sound guy, but if your guitarist knows what's up maybe ask him to define your presets. Spend the money you'd save from not having a sound guy on good wireless equipment instead.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

One piece of advice- after initial setup and system balance, check the vocals first.
Typically input order begins with drums, then bass etc etc. however the most time consuming/ trouble shooting
is with vocal mics.

 

[pigpen1]

I just joined a cover band doing 3 sets at a local sports bar. The band just purchased a PA (JBL tops and subs, X18Air, DBX Drive Rack) and everyone is running directly into the PA, electronic drums, guitarist with an amp emulator, bass (me) running on a sansamp and one vocal.

I'm the new guy so I don't get much say but we are playing our first show in this configuration with no sound guy.

Now I'm sure this can be done but it just seems like we would benefit from getting a good shootout of our new system with a sound guy before we go gig.

Any tips for some good basic EQ settings for instruments or overall to help us sound better?

Get there early if you can.


I'd preset some frequency brackets/hpf/lpf on that digital board. there are useless but problematic frequencies you can rules out right away. Might be worth using it at rehearsal and saving a bass mix/gain structure.


Us the limiting feature in the dbx to protect those speakers. If done correctly you will get a lot more life out of the those cabs and it will sound better too. If you're constantly hitting them, you need a bigger rig.


Looks like your probably using IEMS but don't forget to check what things really sound like in the room

 

[Indexed]

Seconding the addition of a dedicated router with a 5Ghz channel. Use the RTA in the XAir app to notch any feedback freqs.

 

[GreyBeard]

I have done it but we used traditional stage amps and reinforced them with a 3 way PA. I used a wireless to go out and listen. The board, which I knew like the back of my hand, was located directly beside me. We didn't run much if any instruments through the monitors, just vocals. What you are proposing is to not use much if any stage amps and running all drums, guitars, keyboards, and vocals through the monitors and PA. Is the board new? Who will be in charge of running it. Just getting the monitors correct will be a chore. Trying to do it all from the stage with new equipment and put on a show at the same time is more than I would attempt.

Brand new PA, everybody in it and, no sound tech? Sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

[s0c9]

I wish that was possible. It's a good idea, but out here in the hinterland of South Texas, there's just not enough pie to cut a piece for a sound person. Glad you guys are able.

It ain't limited to the South TX hinterland either.. up here is metro DFW area, it's exactly the same. Most places pay a pittance and venues that used to book us Fri/Sat are cutting back to Sat only because people just ain't coming out to dance and listen to live music any more. And that's the venues that are still open.. many I have played over the last 7 yrs with my country band have closed. There's not many left.
Sound man? Only if the house has one..

 

[RoaDan]

I just joined a cover band doing 3 sets at a local sports bar. The band just purchased a PA (JBL tops and subs, X18Air, DBX Drive Rack) and everyone is running directly into the PA, electronic drums, guitarist with an amp emulator, bass (me) running on a sansamp and one vocal.

I'm the new guy so I don't get much say but we are playing our first show in this configuration with no sound guy.

Now I'm sure this can be done but it just seems like we would benefit from getting a good shootout of our new system with a sound guy before we go gig.

Any tips for some good basic EQ settings for instruments or overall to help us sound better?

This is the best argument for going "traditional"... bring your own amps/rigs and get a sound guy/gal.

 

[micguy]

If someone in the band is going to go into the audience and set levels, it should not be the guitarist. It probably shouldn't be you. Whoever sets levels is likely to put too much of themselves in the mix, and if you have to choose one person to do that, it should be the vocalist - vocals that are a bit too prominent in the mix are more acceptable to an audience than an instrument that is a bit too prominent.

But yeah, best advice is to get a sound person. Sound is kinda like surgery - something you really don't want to do yourself.

 

[CBBass123]

One piece of advice- after initial setup and system balance, check the vocals first.
Typically input order begins with drums, then bass etc etc. however the most time consuming/ trouble shooting
is with vocal mics.

The problem with this, is all venues are different and drums are loud. If you are playing in a smaller venue... drummers are mostly uncontrollable. There are some drummers out there that have dynamics, but for the most part, they are like guitarist and like to be loud. So acoustically, not even mic'd up, the drums could be louder than vocals. And also, the toms are heavy in mid presence which will compete with vocals.

EQ: other tips
Bass guitar. Too boomy? Try a higher low cut/hpf. Maybe 38 - 42hz. The trick is to not boost the bass. Use an EQ shelving where the bass is different than the bass drum. Bass drum boosted in 60hz, cut bass guitar at 60hz but emphasize bass at 80hz and above. Bass is better heard at mids anyways.

Oh and don't Pan. There's really no need for panning unless its really needed. I run mostly mono for all bands unless its a huge show and even at then, i seldom pan. Depending on the situation, there could be a good amount of people just chillin on the left side of stage that panning wouldn't help. Or opposite. I like bands at mono. I've done countless shows fully mono. Only time i find it useful is when a guitarist shows up to a small gig with a half stack and you are like seriously bro?? So hes gonna be loud already on one side of the stage. But normally, the sound guy has the power to go and tell that guy to turn down and give him guitar in the monitor.

 

[Jeff Haislip]

We purchased the DBX DriveRack a few months ago and it has been great. The DriveRack doesn't use the terrible "Pink Noise" that we all remember as really loud and awful. It makes several sweeps of the room with a very quick noise. You do that a few times in the room and you are pretty much set for the night. Nothing is perfect, however this is as close to perfect as we have found. We are using a Presonus rackmount mixer with an iPad out front. By the way, I do not work for DBX. I am just a gray haired bass player!!!

 

[rtslinger]

A most is to be wireless for who ever is tweaking stuff for FOH. It is very difficult if you are trying to do it from the stage. You need to go out to the farthest spot in the room and listen to what you are sending to the crowd. good luck rts

 

[prater]

This is all good advice, actually the only one not on wireless is the guitarist. The drummer has recorded our warmups so he can hit play on his drums and stand in the crowd during soundcheck (before doors), vocalist and I are on wireless. We do not use IEMS but each have a wedge. The RTA and Xair take care of feedback. I've got an idea what I want to cut/boos frequency wise on bass, and guitar. The drummer EQs his drums at the kit and requires minimal additional EQ from the board. I'll do some research on vocal EQ as I don't have much experience with it.

 

[2F/2F]

If you're providing the sound system, then my biggest "tip" is to get paid significantly more! That makes everything so much harder for you guys.

 

[Astronaut]

You have a xr18 right? Use your PC and Learn to do virtual sound-checks.