Bands using "Backing Tracks"

[totallybacan]

One of the local bands around my area likes to use backing tracks. They seem like they are hitting it off alright as they were just featured in a T Mobile commercial.

They are a 5 piece band, with dual guitars and lead singer/keyboard. When playing live, they use pre-recorded drum machine tracks along with horns. However, I personally know that they themselves played the horns and own the drum machine, so they didn't use someone's talent for a single session. They are just showcasing multiple talents at the same time that if not for the backing tracks, it would not be possible.

 

[dingbass]

Seeing as to how bands at the national and club level have been using tape, clicks, keyboard sequences (is an arpeggiator 'cheating,' or just saving the keyboard player's hand?), on up to minidisk, samplers, and iPod tracks, since the 1970's, I'd love to hear you elucidate on how this "catches up" with them, other than to possibly expand their repertoire without hiring extra musicians, thus making them more hirable, and more fun to listen to.

Please note, I'm talking about people fleshing out their sound to perform songs they don't have the instrumentation to, otherwise; I'm not talking about doubling pre-recorded parts (which happens, but I don't see often) or flat-out pretending to play parts they're not. I'm not even talking about pre-recording background vocals, although I don't see a problem with that, either. I'm talking about replacing percussion and horn sections, and synth or piano parts with a sequence to a click.

To the OP--obviously a lot of people here have opinions regarding backing tracks. I'd say at least half, if not more, cover bands who play regionally, nationally, or in a couple of cases I'm aware of, internationally at $10,000 a pop, use backing tracks for various reasons. They put on amazing shows, crowds love them, and that's their job; they don't have to tear down after 45 minutes and go home early so they can wake up and go to their real job. Some of these people are booked solid a year in advance.

Obviously, whether or not it's appropriate to your situation depends on, well, your situation, but it's a standard thing to do in a cover band, and has been at all levels for decades. If you feel it's robbing something from your band's performance, convince them not to do it, or find another gig, but don't worry about whether or not it's standard or acceptable to audiences; it is.

Even for background vocals; if for no other reason that so many modern background vocals are heavily processed, compressed, vocoder'ed, auto-tuned (for tone a la Cher, not pitch correction), etc, and it's impractical to tour that way live, unless you're the much-mentioned Britney. So people pre-record their background vocals.

I wouldn't want to do it to every tune, but on some of our Journey set or Queen covers, I think it'd be completely appropriate, since it's difficult to get some of our band members to sing multiple-part harmonies consistently, or for that matter, to keep the drums from blaring through the drummer's vocal mike on a regular basis, which makes the whole mix sound bad.

YMMV, but don't let a bunch of people with ideas of what proper music is try to tell you it's cheating, somehow, or that it's not a live performance anymore.

Walt
I've followed your posts throughout this thread and I am in complete agreement with what you've said. I am in the same situation where we use tracks for some tunes. that doesn't mean that anyone in the band sucks, we all practise, we all play our parts, we all groove.

i am having difficulty getting over how for some people it is okay for national touring acts to run tracks but not bar bands or corprate bands? is there a success/amount of playing correlation coefficient that my music business instructor didn't tell us about? "if your album goes gold you have to play three out of four songs, but if you go platinum you only have to play one out of every two". I just don't get it. besides all of this if i can play the parts in my studio and not have to pay a fifth guy (and as said earlier by someone else in the thread, and not have to deal with all the legistics of a fifth) I'm going to do it!

to the OP I'm going to second what Walt said at the end of the above post.

 

[funkydanbass]

I think it's really sad that working musicians are arguing FOR backing tracks.
I am a music fan first and foremost and I do not want to hear horn sections, strings or BV's that aren't being performed in the room. Where is the integrity in that?

Pokies, DJ's and bloody backing tracks.. Putting musicians out of jobs.

If you want to have sax on your record, get a sax player to play live.
I don't care what you think 'touring acts' are doing... If you're arguing economics as a justification for using tracks, particuarly on original music then you're obviously more of a rock star than you are a musician...

I saw Dave Matthews Band, John Mayer and Stevie Wonder last year... No backing tracks there...

 

[funkydanbass]

BTW, I'm not against technology in music at all. The drummer in my band uses a Roland SPD-S to trigger 'one-shot' samples of electronic drum sounds or sound effects.

I just hate watching bands using tracks... I feel ripped off. You don't have enough singers in the band? Don't perform songs that require multi part harmony? Don't have a horn section? Be creative and cover the part on organ or don't play the song! ETC ETC

 

[kesslari]

A) Are you playing in a cover band?

B) Are you trying to make a living playing music? Not just hoping it happens, but making it happen?

If the answer is "no" to those questions, then I don't expect you to understand. The show is what people are paying to see...they don't care about what's sequenced and what isn't, until the band blows the illusion by being completely incompetent without their backing tracks.

And people pay good money to hear and sing karaoke.
Especially drunk people.

The people who sing karaoke are really singing.
or at least trying.

That doesn't mean that I consider it the same as a band playing live.

Enjoy your backing tracks, I'll enjoy mine without.

 

[nsmar4211]

I used to be against them.......until I realized one day that NO ONE in the audience has a clue. The musicians do.......but the working musicians understand you gotta do what you gotta do. And when you live in an area where drummers are flighty, well, out comes the backing track.

I do admit, one group I'm in does all of its own programming. And trust me, it's more work to midi a drum track than it would be to just play the sucker live......a lot more! Guitar parts and all that are done by us too. It actually works out pretty well.

I saw a national act, really good one, 6 piece. Realized I was hearing keyboards and realized I couldn't see a key player, got up and moved around and nope, no keys. So after the show I went and talked to the bass player-he told me they had a keys player, but he couldn't always come on tour so he recorded his tracks and the drummer uses a laptop to trigger them. Like I said, the audience didn't care!

I've also seen it fall flat on its face... and I can also tell you you better have a good sense of timing because unless you record it with the speed ups and slow downs, it's not moving. Keeps you honest on your timing!

As for a blues band using them? I've yet to play in one where the timing is spot on enough to use one, everyone gets too excited .

 

[ric stave]

LOL! This has to be one of my favorite threads!

I would love to play in a band that can cover everything that we do w/tracks, but the reality is if I had to try to bring a 10-12 pc group to most of the places we play at, 1) it wouldn't fit in the room physically, 2) it wouldn't be worth it to anyone $$$-wise, and 3) if we adjusted the $$ accordingly, we'd be out of the price range of most of the clubs. So if the option were 'do it real or stop playing, I'd have to stop playing. The sad thing is, someone else would fill that spot, and f' it if I'm going to give up my job because other people feel I should have 'more integrity'.

Like I said before, where is the line? "If you can't have a real horn or string section, play the parts on a keyboard" - hmmmmm - years ago, when synthesizers first came out, everyone was all against THAT. I remember the message boards from back in the 50's and 60's having similar discussions to this one. ( )

And why not argue against a keyboard player doing multiple parts? "Hey! He's playing organ with one hand and piano with the other! Dammit, if you can't hire a 2nd guy to play one of those parts, just don't do the song! You're taking work away from another keyboardist!" Or a talented drummer who can play percussion parts along with his 'regular' kit part? Or a guitarist using a harmonizer for a solo? "If you can't finger both parts at once, hire someone else to play the harmony line, or don't do those songs!"

It's funny seeing where people's lines are drawn.

The thing is, if people enjoy the show they come out to see, they will keep coming, and there will be a market for it. Joe Schmoe playing acoustic guitar and singing to a full band version on an iPod, changing pages on his music book during the song and not playing is STILL getting hired back. He may be a great musician, he may suck, he may just be a business genius.

Me, personally, would rather see a guy with a guitar and vocal mic by himself do something interesting with an arrangement. Unfortunately, MY opinion is not one that most people of the masses share - MOST people want to hear the songs as they know them, and just care about the end result. They are not music critics, and are not good judges of talent - they will bring all their friends out to the next time the off-pitch hack is playing, cuz he did their favorite party tunes; but they won't even remember the guy who played a solo version of a symphony arranged for acoustic and performed flawlessly.

I could have my gtr/bs/drum band rearrange the songs we do and not use any tracks, but the only person who might appreciate the effort even if we ended up with a very clever version would be another musician, and quite honestly, I don't get many of those out to party with my Disco band. (Truth be told, we DO do a few songs w/o tracks, one of them being a guitarsynth w/brass/bass/drums version of the Theme from Rocky, and it sounds pretty decent)

Call me a whore, but if I don't do what it takes to get my band booked and make $$$, somebody else will.

 

[wildhorse]

Not sure how I feel about that... If they really are playing live, I want MORE than what's on the record, in terms of energy, arrangement, etc. In any case, if a band really knows what they are doing, you might not be able to tell if they are using tracks to bolster the sound of the band.



Why is one better or worse than the other?

Oh the energy was there because it was live. You should be able to tell the difference between live instruments and pre-recorded instruments. As well as voice. Randy Travis's voice for example live could never be captured the same way on a recording. Live he is much more powerful.

And I'll agree with you on one better or worse (maybe) in the case where someone is using a midi keyboard as there back up band while they sing and play guitar. But if it's an enhancement such as used by U2 while the rest of the band plays live, I'd rather see them use the keyboard that was designed for that and is playing the sounds live rather than a CD recording of that same keyboard.

That being said though I guess I'd rather see a solo artist in a coffee house use his midi keyboard rather than recorded CD's as well. It just seems more real that way to me for some reason.

 

[MikeBass]

Putting musicians out of jobs.

I don't know why, but that's funny....

It's OK for a keyboard player to play horn lines, string patches and what ever else, but the second you put it on a track, it's not OK.

I'm in an original project. We used to take out strings with us. It was to the point to where most places couldn't get the strings mic'd up correctly or just couldn't get them mixed etc.....
And then the money factor kicked in as well. We even had our second guitar player track his parts because he couldn't make some gigs.

I could care less what the 1, maybe 2 musicians standing in the back of the room, arms folded, not buying drinks grumbling about how we're using tracks and how it's putting them out of a job.

Thanks for coming to my show!!!!
Our audience doesn't seem to mind/care/notice, and they're the ones who but our CD's and come see us.
NOT the two guys in the back.

When our management says to us: "Hey, the budget for Europe is $XXXXX- and that $XXXXX only supports 5 people, what do we do? NOT take the tour?
Umm.....NO- we say yes and go.
Our second guitar player knows he plays "stunt guitar" as we call it and if the budget isn't there, then we have to make a choice.
It's a professional situation. If you're not comfortable enough to handle it, well, throw together your own thing and go to town.

Not sure about John Mayer, but Dave Matthews tours with a keyboard player and a second guitarist.
Stevie Wonder is a sad example to use. (A good friend of mine is one of his back-up singers). He has so much money, he can take along enough musicians to cover ANYthing he needs to have played. So that example is moot.

Funny how no one yet has mentioned Earth Wind & Fire. Talk about NOT playing you parts and letting a track do it for you?!?!? Verdine White.......he's dancing around and you hear stuff being played and his hands are no where near what they should be doing.

Lets be clear, I'm AGAINST faking your playing on stage. If I was in a situation that said, "Hey, just turn down and let the tracks take care of it", I would: 1)Quit or 2) be paid a LOT of money.

But to supplement what you doing, go for it.

 

[WalterBush]

LOL! This has to be one of my favorite threads!

It's funny seeing where people's lines are drawn.

+1. Most of the musicians I know personally are at least trying to do this as a part time job...and none of them have anything to say at all regarding our use of tracks, unless it's, "how do you get the click to the drummer?" or "Do you buy those, or did you program/record them?"

Part of what I'm interested in is the vehemence of some people in insisting that it's wrong somehow. That, and the idea of, "do it right, like I'd do it, or don't do it at all!" It's something I haven't encountered in person since I was in college, at the latest.

So, what some people seem to be saying is, if we can't afford, find, work with, arrange rehearsals around, cough up charts for, build stages for, find venues big enough for, and pay enough to keep, real horn players, dedicated background vocalists, string sections, and Kieth Emerson to come in and play keys with us, we shouldn't perform these songs at all!

Congratulations, the club just called in a DJ, who has no problems downloading whatever you want on the spot from iTunes and putting live acts out of business!

The sad truth is, if these people existed where we live, we'd try and use them. But they don't, and if we didn't do what we do, the only people doing it would be from out of town, and I'd be playing our originals (yes, we write) to a room of 15 or 20 people and not getting paid for it.

But, even though I could no longer justify gigging outside of church to my wife and kids, and I'd lose a major chunk of my income, I'd have my integrity

 

[DoggBisket]

It is wrong, seriously wrong. Back in the 80's Milli Vanilli got run out of the business for doing it. Now it is common practice. Personally it is a complete turn off as an audience member to see a band that is using Backing Tracks.

If I paid big bucks to see an A list concert and saw that they were using backing tracks I feel cheated and be pissed!!!!

I can see in the corporate/party scene why bands do it. At events like that nobody gives a **** about the band. The band is basically a human jukebox.

 

[Richland123]

There's a local guy here (goes by the name "Calico") who uses a looper extensively for his "backing band." He builds each song up layer by layer right in front of you-- a tap on the microphone for the kick, an actual snare hit for the snare, scraping the pick across the mic for a high hat. Its pretty incredible but its also a house of cards that does fall down at times. I think what he does is extremely musical. He does an occasional cover but just like a full band, the cover has to fit the instrumentation he can offer.

For those who are doing backing tracks for economics-- eventually this will all catch up to them. Slippery slope, indeed, and the last stop is Karaoke. Still, there will always be a desire for the real thing. I did "Karaoke" with a full band while on a recording trip in Dallas. It was great fun-- like playing in a band for one song!

Guitar maestro, Phil Keaggy, is the master at live looping when he does his solo shows. I saw him do it and it was quite amazing.

 

[smeet]

In 10 years, it will be quite funny to look back at a discussion like this... I remember when the Linn drum was regarded as the devil incarnate, as were "string ensemble" machines etc.

I'm guessing that around 10,000 years ago, some people thought that it was cheating to use a bamboo flute to make music instead of just your voice.

In 50 years we'll be arguing about robots or AI's or genetically enhanced performers, or...

 

[Mr. Ray]

I guess I from the old school. I would love going to see a band that I enjoyed listening to on record/cd/radio and got to see a live version of my favorite songs.

You would get a true indication of their "real" talent by their live performance. Today alot the acts sing along with backing tracks and use different musicians because the original band actually never played most of the parts on the original recording.

I guess it depends on what you think live music is suppose to be. The marketing of music is different today.

You would never see such acts as Stevie Ray Vaughn, Albert King or Freddy King with "karoke" tracks. Seeing them live was a one time, memorable and unique experience. You got to hear how they really sang and how they really played their instruments.

 

[WalterBush]

You would never see such acts as Stevie Ray Vaughn, Albert King or Freddy King with "karoke" tracks. Seeing them live was a one time, memorable and unique experience. You got to hear how they really sang and how they really played their instruments.

The way they wrote music, the songs they played, the instrumentation they recorded with, and even their styles never required it. If it had, you may have seen them try it at some point.

When you come see my band, you get to see how I really sing, and how I really play my instrument, whether we're playing with a backing track, or not. I think there are some very, very basic misconceptions here about what having background tracks in the mix entails. At no point are you hearing a pre-recorded Walter when you see my cover band, or hearing any fakery in my vocals or bass lines.

 

[Billnc]

I work quite a few shows, tracks are primarily used for dance bands, quite a few R&B acts use tracks, sometimes it's just the singer. Personally I'm completely against the use of tracks. If its replacing instruments, I have no respect for the act at all.

 

[WalterBush]

It is wrong, seriously wrong. Back in the 80's Milli Vanilli got run out of the business for doing it. Now it is common practice. Personally it is a complete turn off as an audience member to see a band that is using Backing Tracks.

If I paid big bucks to see an A list concert and saw that they were using backing tracks I feel cheated and be pissed!!!!

I can see in the corporate/party scene why bands do it. At events like that nobody gives a **** about the band. The band is basically a human jukebox.

What you're referring to is not using a backing track--it's a lip sync performance. Milli Vanilli didn't sing, they didn't play, they did nothing but dance and move their lips.

That's not what the OP was referring to, and it's not what I've been talking about. I believe he was referring to using pre-recorded background vocals only, with no one faking their instrumental role or the lead vocals. I've been talking about replacing percussion, string, keyboard, or horn parts; none of the people in my cover band are able to do those things and continue to sing, play our primary instrument, or otherwise perform. The physics involved in growing an extra set of arms to play a single violin and keep the bass going alone boggles my mind.

Other people replace, say, that third guitar part that appeared on the CD but they don't pay a third guitarist to do, or the extra keyboard part or producer-added loop. Some people sing to a pre-recorded track or sequence; the coffeeshop guitarist with a MIDI setup comes to mind. Is that guy faking it, or just getting his music heard?

And NONE of what I just described is what Milli Vanilli did. What they did was an attempt to fool the public that didn't succeed. What's more, lip synced performances are only standard practice in impersonation gigs outside of Vegas. The vast majority of performers, even the dreaded Britney, aren't doing what Milli Vanilli, or should I say, their producers, attempted.

 

[agreatheight]

It's funny seeing where people's lines are drawn.

Ding, ding.

Do what you have to do to give your audience the show they want at a level you can afford.

 

[BassyBill]

If I had a 6 piece and only two people could sing, that would mean that I'd hired the wrong people.

Depends what you hired 'em for, I suppose. I play in a 21 piece band where only one person can sing really well. The rest of the band got the gig because of what they can do on their instruments.

Just sayin'.

 

[agreatheight]

If I paid big bucks to see an A list concert and saw that they were using backing tracks I feel cheated and be pissed!!!!

I can see in the corporate/party scene why bands do it. At events like that nobody gives a **** about the band. The band is basically a human jukebox.

This is where I stand.

Van Halen did pre-recorded keys on the last tour, I didn't go. They can pay someone. And for crying out loud, don't make the guy from Night Ranger do it off stage either - that's just mean.

Corporate / bar gigs can be a lot of fun, but DoggBisket is right - no one is ever satisfied these days. Drunken patron / employee, "What do you mean you don't play _____ song." Me, "When we go on break, you can go ahead and play it on the jukebox." Damn. If a band wants to load some stuff up on a PC and play along, I have no qualms. If it makes the audience happy, and they can save money doing it, cool. It's not for me, but I understand it.