Bands using "Backing Tracks"

[WalterBush]

Van Halen did pre-recorded keys on the last tour, I didn't go. They can pay someone. And for crying out loud, don't make the guy from Night Ranger do it off stage either - that's just mean.

I didn't go see Van Halen last tour because they've been disappointing me musically since the 1984 album, but I see what you mean.

Sometimes tracks just don't cut it for me, either. I went to see Jefferson Starship recently; they used a sample from their own album as the intro to "We Built This City." It was pretty disappointing; it wasn't even all that clear of a sample, sounded lo-fi. But then, only the singer was an original band member, and the whole performance was sort of ho-hum.

From what I've seen, either you got it or you don't; tracks are a tool, nothing more, nothing less, and a good performer keeps the crowd entertained regardless of the tools they use. I've seen plenty of non-track using bands that looked like they were up on stage faking it and wishing they were somewhere else, too.

 

[Ubersheist]

And trust me, it's more work to midi a drum track than it would be to just play the sucker live......a lot more!

Same with us... the key parts that we're trying to implement are tough to create. You don't just go and whip 'em out an hour or two before the show. They take days. Here's what happens when you make your backing tracks:

You create 'em, then they don't sound right, so you have to go back and redo 'em. Then someone changes the arrangement a bit, so you have to go back and reprogram, but they still don't sound right, so you have to redo them again. This crap goes on for a long, long time before everyone's OK with them.

... a good performer keeps the crowd entertained regardless of the tools they use. I've seen plenty of non-track using bands that looked like they were up on stage faking it and wishing they were somewhere else, too.

Exactly. +1000 pts.

 

[Ubersheist]

I would love to play in a band that can cover everything that we do w/tracks, but the reality is if I had to try to bring a 10-12 pc group to most of the places we play at, 1) it wouldn't fit in the room physically, 2) it wouldn't be worth it to anyone $$$-wise, and 3) if we adjusted the $$ accordingly, we'd be out of the price range of most of the clubs. So if the option were 'do it real or stop playing, I'd have to stop playing. The sad thing is, someone else would fill that spot, and f' it if I'm going to give up my job because other people feel I should have 'more integrity'.

These are excellent points that I don't think many others are thinking of.

I think when we're done, we're only using backing tracks on 1/2 the songs. We're not going to hire a keyboard player (we'd have to hire them, as they're in SHORT demand around here) just to have him hang outside and smoke a cigarette for 1/2 our show. We also don't always use keyboard sounds. We're not going to get someone to play a triangle for 1 or 2 songs, either.

 

[SLIV]

When our management says to us: "Hey, the budget for Europe is $XXXXX- and that $XXXXX only supports 5 people, what do we do? NOT take the tour?
Umm.....NO- we say yes and go.

What happens if management says "you have only $xxx for your budget and we only want to send the singer." It seems impossible but you never know. If an audience gets used to backing tracks for primary instruments playing primary parts, it can happen.

If the backing parts don't matter-- then they don't matter. If they are significant to the integrity of the song-- then they obviously matter a great deal. The cheapest solution, always, is to cut a musician.

I know the OP is not talking about this kind of use of backing tracks. I'm just playing out the possible implications. I believe audiences are getting more and more habituated to pre-recorded sound.

 

[phxlbrmpf]

My band uses crazy-ish, Nine Inch Nails-esque synths and drum machine layers in some songs and we use backing tracks for that, I suppose the only way to pull this off truly "live" would be having a keyboard player with tons of equipment.

However, I must say that when some bands do it, it bothers me slightly, like U2, for example. It always seems a bit silly when some of their songs have keys and horns (like in "Stuck in a Moment") coming out of nowhere. I assume they should be able to afford having like a keyboard player on stage. Entirely dropping them would be fine with me as well as they don't seem to add that much to the songs.

 

[Ed Goode]

My classic rock band plays one location where we are the ONLY band that has drums and bass .... every other band there has backing tracks and maybe one live musician, at the most two players. Sometimes the lead vocals come off the backing tracks with no one in the band singing. One "band" is a single guy that just sings to the backing tracks.

Funny thing is, the audience absolutely does not know the difference, or at least they really don't care. They are having a good time singing along or dancing. Everyone needs to get used to it, I guess, because it isn't going away.

I personally don't care for it, but that's mostly because it takes away from musical creativity, IMO. No extending a solo, no adding an extra verse, you're more or less controlled by the backing tracks .... sort of emotionless to me ....

 

[WalterBush]

What happens if management says "you have only $xxx for your budget and we only want to send the singer." It seems impossible but you never know. If an audience gets used to backing tracks for primary instruments playing primary parts, it can happen.

I can answer that what if, with an example of what actually happened. First off, it does happen. When Bret Michaels (formerly of Poison) first started playing locally (he now comes through once a year, almost like clockwork.) it was just him, an acoustic guitar, and an iPod with a minus-vocal mix, and that was it.

And people showed up in droves anyway. You're right, a lot of people are used to pre-recorded music; it's not new, though. Singers have been singing to pre-recorded music ever since we've been able to pre-record music.

The thing is, it stirred more interest; everyone knows that a full band is a better show. Having proved that people still wanted to hear him, Brett came back through with live musicians, and now has backing and promotion from VH1, a full stage production, all-live musicians, the full deal. And conveniently, the Quechan tribe has a huge new venue for him to perform in, so he still stops here.

I know that's not every case; I'm just pointing out that it's not a logical progression from a few sequenced parts-->replaced musicians-->complete backing tracks-->DJ's only-->the casino plugs an iPod into a PA.


I also think it has more to do with the songs...people don't care because the tunes themselves are good. Some people can cover up crummy music with an excellent performance or high-energy live show, and that's fine by me. It's why I'd still go see GWAR live, but I haven't bought an album from them in years. But people will always want to hear songs that touch them, no matter what they're played on.

 

[nsmar4211]

Pointbass-
It totally depends on how you do the backing tracks. You actually can do a long solo or whatnot if you program an extra track with that loop and switch the tracks when the solo comes. Depends on the equipment you use!

Millie Vanilli does NOT count in this discussion.......huge difference between backing tracks and lip synching. I'm not air bassing along to a bass line if it's tracked.....if I'm using a tracked line I'm playing guitar/percussion/something else on that song!

Ubersheist (*snicker* love the handle)

Yea, with me programming is: Listen to song until brains run out of ears . Write down song layout on staff paper . Open software and find the tempo/time siggy/etc . Program a few measures......listen to song......program a few more....listen to song . Few hours later get done . Play track and play bass along with it and then it's not lining up! Grab paper with song layout scrawled on it and hunt down offending part (drat.....too many verses) :scowl:. Fix and play again......why is the hihat so loud?!?! Ohhhhhhh someone forgot to turn its volume down . Look for someone to blame and find nearest mirror . Try again.......get it right . Play for rest of group and find new problems . Fix. Someone in group says heyyyyyyy lets add another verse and here we go again.......

Pfffffff. Live people much easier to play with. *gets out duct tape and super glue for drummers*

 

[MikeBass]

If I had a 6 piece and only two people could sing, that would mean that I'd hired the wrong people.

I am of the opinion that if my band wants to cover a tune, and we don't have the instrumentation for it, or none of the singers can sing it, then we don't cover it. We choose something else.

As for large acts...I do not pay $65 a person (at bare minimum) to hear backing tracks. I don't care if it sounds like the cd. The cd has a bunch of studio effects on it. I *want* to hear the rough-and-tumble live sound. I *want* to hear the warts. That's why I go to live shows. If I wanted perfection, if I wanted to hear the cd...I'd just stay home and listen to it.

I suppose it is a good thing I can no longer afford to see national acts.

I desperately miss Liberty Lunch.

My opinion...

Cherie

Ok, I don't know about where you live, but here in Detroit, if you want horn players that can even play a little bit, most of them want at least $100 a night.
Back up singers?? Good luck.

And finding players who can sing and play well on: bass, guitar, drums, keys, 2nd guitar and a lead singer- all in the same band-, well, again, your looking at the very least $600 a night.

And if you can play and sing well, you're already working.

I also like the raw-ness of a live performance. But I'm a musician. So I/we tend to hear things differently.

 

[Korladis]

My band might eventually use some samples for things like sound effects, like a line from this one show we watched that we thought was particularly amusing and suitable for a song intro. Or waves and such.

But for actual musical lines? Never. If we won't be able to do it live, we probably won't record it, and if we ever do, we won't perform such a song live. For live playing we don't use a canned lead guitar track, we get one of our friends from another band to play live lead guitar with us.

One interesting case as well is the band Anaal Nathrakh, who use a drum machine in the studio but have a live drummer when they play concerts.

 

[George Himmel]

This is where I stand.
Van Halen did pre-recorded keys on the last tour, I didn't go. They can pay someone. And for crying out loud, don't make the guy from Night Ranger do it off stage either - that's just mean.

Man, in a thread that had gotten so passionately polarized, that cracked me the hell up.

 

[Ayliffe]

Well, that sux!!! Who wants to hear a live show that sounds just like the cd? I can stay home and listen to the cd, in that case. I pay money to hear a *live* show...passion, sweat, warts, and beauty...*all* of it.

That tears it. "Big" shows are no longer worth the exhorbitant sums they command. If its not live...if the artists are playing and singing along with a pre-recorded track...then it is worth nothing to me, and I won't pay for it. Nor will I give my kids money so they can go, either.

Major labels suck. They are ruining music. "Make it sound the same"...BLAH!!! BORING!!! PLASTIC!!!

I'll never go to a show that isn't in a bar again. Not one I have to pay for. Its not live, so I ain't payin'.

Cherie

So you're going to stop going to Concerts based on what someone on the internet said with no backing evidence or proof?

Sounds kinda dumb to me.

Most good bands do not "lip sync" or pretend to play live, those are only the ones that can't replicate the music the same way over and over. And god help you if you're paying big bucks to go see those bands in the first place....

 

[MikeBass]

What happens if management says "you have only $xxx for your budget and we only want to send the singer." It seems impossible but you never know. If an audience gets used to backing tracks for primary instruments playing primary parts, it can happen.

If the backing parts don't matter-- then they don't matter. If they are significant to the integrity of the song-- then they obviously matter a great deal. The cheapest solution, always, is to cut a musician.

I know the OP is not talking about this kind of use of backing tracks. I'm just playing out the possible implications. I believe audiences are getting more and more habituated to pre-recorded sound.

Well, I guess that could happen, but we are a band.
And they know that.
Second, the "extra" players are just that, extra players.
We use them when we can. But if logistics and/or budget don't allow for them, we can still move forward.

 

[Ubersheist]

Ubersheist (*snicker* love the handle)

Yea, with me programming is: Listen to song until brains run out of ears . Write down song layout on staff paper . Open software and find the tempo/time siggy/etc . Program a few measures......listen to song......program a few more....listen to song . Few hours later get done . Play track and play bass along with it and then it's not lining up! Grab paper with song layout scrawled on it and hunt down offending part (drat.....too many verses) :scowl:. Fix and play again......why is the hihat so loud?!?! Ohhhhhhh someone forgot to turn its volume down . Look for someone to blame and find nearest mirror . Try again.......get it right . Play for rest of group and find new problems . Fix. Someone in group says heyyyyyyy lets add another verse and here we go again.......

Pfffffff. Live people much easier to play with. *gets out duct tape and super glue for drummers*

You forgot to add that after all that, the band leader says "Oh, I thought I told you.. we're dropping that song."

Real musicians are easier, but the backing tracks really do give your group a slicker, more professional sound, and let you get the stage show/performance going better.

 

[KPJ]

Well, this thread got interesting. I have no problem with backing tracks as the point is to provide good entertainment to the audience. I disagree with the "if we can't do it live we won't do it statements" as sequencers and backing tracks allow you to do it live. It's just another instrument. The Who pioneered the use of backing tracks nearly forty years ago when touring to support "Who's Next" and "Quadrophenia". I'm sure anyone here going to see those shows then would be very disappointed if the signature synthesizer, horn and keyboard parts were missing from those songs. They only expanded the shows in the later years because they could. The logistics in the early 70's for The Who to tour with full strings and horns were prohibitive. Rush has used sequencers and tracks for years as well.

 

[3wavylines]

Sounds like bands are trying to balance making music, making entertainment, and making money.

I think one of the things audiences look for in an artist is some sort of authenticity. I don't think any artist can be genuinely authentic all the time. There will always be some performance mixed in. Some artists are better at appearing authentic than others.

I think the controversy over adding backing tracks might be seen as a conflict between two different types of authenticity - being true to the original recording or being true to what a band can actually play live.

For myself, I think I would have more respect for an original band that used recordings as a creative tool. For instance, in early Roxy Music, Brian Eno used pre-recorded tapes as part of their live show. I have less of a problem with that than I would seeing a Roxy Music cover band (is there such a thing?) using a pre-recorded version of Eno's synthesizer solo from "Editions of You".

On the other hand, I like Roxy Music enough that if I went to a bar and a band was lip-synching along with Roxy recordings, I would probably enjoy it just the same.

 

[Rob Lewis]

The fact that a lot of modern pop/rock/whatever you want to call it is highly produced
doesn't help: people come expecting to hear what they hear on CD or the radio, so even if you've got keys/horns and you have multilayered tracks on your recordings then you're going to struggle to reproduce them live. My approach is to do it one way in the studio and another live.

 

[Ubersheist]

I think the controversy over adding backing tracks might be seen as a conflict between two different types of authenticity - being true to the original recording or being true to what a band can actually play live.

The best sounding bands don't necessarily stay true to the original recordings. You can do things in the studio that you cannot do live, no matter how many sequenced tracks you use. No band will ever sound exactly like the record, even if they are the ones who originally recorded it. It's just not possible. Recorded music and live music are two entirely different things, and should be treated as such.

What's important is to strip the songs down to the necessities... the groove/beat, vocals and general feel of the song. The best sounding live bands keep it simple. Less really is more. If backing tracks help keep it simple, then they should be used.

 

[Korladis]

Well, this thread got interesting. I have no problem with backing tracks as the point is to provide good entertainment to the audience. I disagree with the "if we can't do it live we won't do it statements" as sequencers and backing tracks allow you to do it live.

That might work for you, but it doesn't for us. Until we have a keyboard player as part of the live lineup, we will never write keyboard parts that are totally essential to the song, that will be sorely missed if not present live. We won't record three guitar parts, either, if we're intending on doing the song live, as our live lineup only has two guitars.

Part of the reason that we would not use a pre-recorded guitar or keyboard line is because we think it looks ridiculous to have a an instrument's line seemingly come out of nowhere, it looks cheap to us. Another reason is because to avoid screwing it up, we'd have to hold to the exact tempo of the pre-recorded part and would not be able to vary things if we wanted to.

For sound effects, perhaps we'd use them. But those are sound effects, not musical lines.

If other bands want to use backing tracks, whatever. It's not what I would do, but that's just me. RU36, for instance, has no drummer and uses a drum machine and a ton of sample lines. They're pretty good, but IMO, would be be more fun to see live if they did get a drummer.

 

[Intune]

I love to play bass on Seven Bridges Road. I don't even plug in and the audience goes crazy! "Ohmygosh he is sooo talented. I heard that he can hum and whistle at the same time too."

Listen, a lot of folks seem to be gettin' defensive in this thread & are becoming somewhat offensive whilst doing so.

Why the need to justify the use of tracks? If it works for you & yours, so be it. Dang... The converse also carries weight, if one doesn't like tracks, fine.

I can hang with a bit of horns/keys/loops/choir/sound effects in parts. But, if you push play & a whole recognizable song is there, note for note/measure for measure, I MIGHT have a problem with that.

The first time I saw KT Tunstall do this it blew me away-

Have fun out there.