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Barefaced Bass 'BIG TWIN' ... lets talk about it...

pablomigraine

pablomigraine

Commercial User
Feb 9, 2005
3,458
611
New York
neuraldsp.com
Disclosures
Director of Commercial Sales - Neural DSP
#1
So.... I'm on the verge of starting a new project, and the nature of the music has got me thinking about a new rig. Although the music we'd be doing has nothing to do with Jah, I'll be needing absolutely insane, Reggae style amounts of low-bass wash.. with a lot more midrange and treble than that style. Basically I need amounts of true low-bass that would otherwise be considered insane for any live band.... like big nasty folded horn subwoofers type bass.

Although I'm perfectly happy with my Genz Benz rig... Ive been thinking about a lot of different solutions for this new project. One idea was to run a preamp into a QSC KW152 and a QSC KW181. Some of the large-format Fearful designs have also been considered.... but mainly I just keep coming back to the Barefaced Bass Website.

Originally I thought about pairing a "Dubster" and a "Big Twin". After talking with Alex Claber... he seems to feel I would be just fine with one Big Twin. Now, the Barefaced site makes some pretty outrageous claims about this little guy. Like a 2x12+1x8+T being able to produce more sound than a boutique 610... or a 2x15 being able to trounce TWO 8x10s....

Who out here in TB land owns one of these? Lets hear some practical comparisons to other gear, and some comments from folks who have a wide basis for comparison with other cabinets.



PS- Lets try to keep it confined to the Barefaced stuff, and avoid making lots of recommendations for other brands....
 
#2
I have a Big Twin, and my previous cab was a Schroeder 6x10, and I don't find that claim outrageous at all. :)

Gobs of real, uncompressed low end, a bump in the upper mids to my ear (at least compared to anything I've heard in the past), and as loud as your amp permits.

A simple reply I know, but I am very impressed by what that relatively small and extremely light 2x12 cab can do.
 
#3
4-string said:
I have a Big Twin, and my previous cab was a Schroeder 6x10, and I don't find that claim outrageous at all. :)

Gobs of real, uncompressed low end, a bump in the upper mids to my ear (at least compared to anything I've heard in the past), and as loud as your amp permits.

A simple reply I know, but I am very impressed by what that relatively small and extremely light 2x12 cab can do.
Click to expand...

What else have you owned besides the Jorg that you can compare the BFB to in terms of sound and overall SPL?
 
#4
Barefaced designs, drivers used, real specs, etc. all point to those conclusions. You don't need practical experience with a bunch of run-of-the-mill bass cabs to know these kinds of designs can trounce them.

I take it this is a continuation of your last thread where everybody told you what you're trying to do is a job for serious PA gear.....and it is.
 
#6
will33 said:
Barefaced designs, drivers used, real specs, etc. all point to those conclusions. You don't need practical experience with a bunch of run-of-the-mill bass cabs to know these kinds of designs can trounce them.

I take it this is a continuation of your last thread where everybody told you what you're trying to do is a job for serious PA gear.....and it is.
Click to expand...

Well... not EVERYONE... more like 1/3 of everyone.... excluding Alex Claber and the Fearful crowd... And I've tried that route out and I'm interested to see how close I can come with bass-specific stuff.....

My practical experience with run of the mill cabs is basically everything Bergantino and lots of Genz Benz. No slouches in the pack..... but I happen to have no experience with these new designs... so I'm interested in those who do... I tend not to give too much credence to the printed spec and adjective. The only difference between the claims made by Barefaced and the claims previously made by let's say Accugroove for example.... is the one of the two may actually be true.... its the actual experience of the end-users that determines which is which.... and all I'm doing is asking for that experience.
 
#7
Conservative: A 15/6 can do a job any 4x10 can do, a 1212/6 can do a job any 6x10 can do, and a 1515/66 can do a job any 8x10 can do (including the top of the line).

While they're doing it, they'll have more low end extension, more consistent mids, and better polar response.

You may need more power to get equivalent volume, but that's how I break it down.

Sensitivity-wise, a 1212/6 is like a 15/6 with 50% more power handling (roughly) and lower impedance. A 1515/66 is like a pair of 15/6's of course.

If you need real numbers on low end you're looking at around -3db @ 42hz, -10db @ 35hz, or somewhere in that ballpark. You can compare that to PA subwoofers (of which the cheap ones are not much better than that while giving up scads of sensitivity to get it).
 
#8
rpsands said:
Conservative: A 15/6 can do a job any 4x10 can do, a 1212/6 can do a job any 6x10 can do, and a 1515/66 can do a job any 8x10 can do (including the top of the line).

While they're doing it, they'll have more low end extension, more consistent mids, and better polar response.

You may need more power to get equivalent volume, but that's how I break it down.

Sensitivity-wise, a 1212/6 is like a 15/6 with 50% more power handling (roughly) and lower impedance. A 1515/66 is like a pair of 15/6's of course.

If you need real numbers on low end you're looking at around -3db @ 42hz, -10db @ 35hz, or somewhere in that ballpark. You can compare that to PA subwoofers (of which the cheap ones are not much better than that while giving up scads of sensitivity to get it).
Click to expand...


Barefaced discussion??
 
#9
pablomigraine said:
Well... not EVERYONE... more like 1/3 of everyone.... excluding Alex Claber and the Fearful crowd... And I've tried that route out and I'm interested to see how close I can come with bass-specific stuff.....

My practical experience with run of the mill cabs is basically everything Bergantino and lots of Genz Benz. No slouches in the pack..... but I happen to have no experience with these new designs... so I'm interested in those who do... I tend not to give too much credence to the printed spec and adjective. The only difference between the claims made by Barefaced and the claims previously made by let's say Accugroove for example.... is the one of the two may actually be true.... its the actual experience of the end-users that determines which is which.... and all I'm doing is asking for that experience.
Click to expand...

Yeah, little harsh there, sorry, man. They really are that good though. The Genz NeoX212 is among the best current commercial cabs I've heard as far as sounding good and giving serious output for a 212. But, these things can be pushed even harder, louder, deeper and not cry about it, just turn it into sound.
 
#10
Tunaman said:
Barefaced discussion??
Click to expand...


The 1212/6 uses the same lf drivers as the Big Twin and very similar output midrange, and the crossover and enclosure size are probably close enough that they'd be tough to distinguish in a lineup.

When talking about the 1212/6, it's hard not to draw comparisons to fEarfuls, of which there are many, many more in existence (stateside anyway).
 
#12
pablomigraine said:
What else have you owned besides the Jorg that you can compare the BFB to in terms of sound and overall SPL?
Click to expand...

Most of the stuff is a long time ago, so it's hard to say for sure.

I one of our rehearsal rooms a buddy has his 410/215 Hughes&Kettner rig, so I was able to do an a/b comparison. Nothing scientific at all, but to my ear the Big Twin was louder, fuller and clearer. No contest.
 
#14
Otso said:
I have a Big Twin T, and it's amazing, more on it in this thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/my-rig-gk-barefaced-content-864648/

The low end is amazing. Before this cab I never liked boosting anything below 100Hz, because it never sounded very defined, but with this cab it sounds good and clear. To put it in the words of our drummer "You could just dive into those low frequencies".
Click to expand...

Sweet! What kind of cabinets have you used in the past that you could compare this one to?

Anyone else want to chime in? I'm looking for practical experience ..... like "I was using an Aguilar GS412 or a Bergantino NV610 and this tiny little 212 is noticeably louder, deeper and has similar midrange quality..." etc etc...

Despite the :science: I just have misgivings about a cabinet this small being able to really trump a Bergantino HD410 or Genz Benz UB410T.... and they ain't cheap.

Anyone care to comment on the advantages of Barefaced Vs. Fearful? (without slagging one or the other!)
 
#15
The Big Twin T is frigging big dude. It's not far from the size of an Ampeg 6x10.

The NV610 is only around 2.5" wider than the Barefaced and 1" shallower.

It's got more internal space than an Uber 410 or an HD410 as well.

* Main advantage of Barefaced over fEarful is the super quality wood Alex has in his cabs -- they're just lighter. The crossover/midrange driver...I have no idea. The mids probably have a different character due to different internals and a different midrange, but overall loudness will be very similar.
 
#16
pablomigraine said:
Anyone care to comment on the advantages of Barefaced Vs. Fearful? (without slagging one or the other!)
Click to expand...

Here is an advantage: While fEARfuls may be few and far between, they are still more available in the US. You can go find one to play if you want to. There are quite a few builders who might have one you can play, dont know which one would be closest to you. Looking at the Link Removed there may be some closer than you realize. Most of the guys with these cabs are more than willing to let you come and play through one.
 

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