Bass Amp Clone Wars

[Hasty]

I’ve played the Elf and the TC. Both sound different. I liked the TC styling slightly more, so I bought one to use at home for low level stuff and as a backup to throw in the bag... but if it had been sold out and the Elf had been the only one available I probably would have bought it instead.
Both are fairly underwhelming, but it was sort of an impulse thing as I could throw it in the gig bag or even my glovebox and have a second amp on hand. To be fair... within the confines of their intended purpose they perform just fine. I’ve even used both on a gig for an electric bass big band event and felt they did fairly well.

 

[Hasty]

Ok. I have to revise my previous statement a little. I just went and played the double bass through the TC BAM200 into my Arnopol 1,6 cab. It sounds way better than I remember it sounding in the past. In fact I’ve got a jazz trio gig tomorrow and I think I’ll play that exact setup. Since it’s a brunch gig it’ll be super tiny and probably about perfect. Glad I got sucked into this thread so I would be compelled to revisit that little amp.


To stay on topic. I still don’t think it sounds like the Elf.

 

[brianrost]

Just one more thing, how do you think like for instance, the TE Elf (200W) will compare in loudness in a live setting to my old (heavy) AH150GP11 (150W)?

Trace ELF thread

TC BAM 200 Thread

 

[Astronaut]

They even put an input jack, an ac socket and a power switch like the original. Dang!

 

[spatters]

The similiarity sort of makes sense. Because these amps are so compact, there is a limited number of ways you can stuff the required building blocks into the available space with the controls.

This. From the perspective of a UI designer, you've got very little room to work with, and several mandatory controls, without which the amp doesn't work at all:
Input jack
Gain
Master volume
Headphone out

Maybe you could mess with the EQ section? But:
There's no room to squeeze an extra knob in, because they'd be too small.
You could use sliders for the EQ, but they tend to break and the slider caps always fall off, especially on something that's supposed to live unprotected in a gig bag. And the amp is so light that you'd probably have to hold it down to move the slider!
You could replace one of the EQ knobs with a compressor or a couple switches, but in 2021 it's going to be difficult to tell people they can't have midrange EQ.

(That said, I have a couple solutions if any amp companies want to hire me )

all the parts are in fact inside the chassis so that is similar.

They don't have to be! You could design an even smaller amp by using an external laptop power supply. (That is roughly the same size as the amp itself )

 

[agedhorse]

They don't have to be! You could design an even smaller amp by using an external laptop power supply. (That is roughly the same size as the amp itself )

Then you wouldn't have any room for the controls/jacks. Besides, that would need to be a 250 watt supply which is beyond most line lump external supplies.

 

[Slevage]

Well, the Amp guts of the ELF and the BAM are very similar. Couldn't find a picture of the Warwick, but I'm sure it's close.
Both these images are from Dissa and he's in the group. These both may be in the Amp guts thread.

View attachment 4245858 View attachment 4245859

I’m not an amp designer, but I have
repaired my share of stuff.
Those amps have several differences.

 

[spatters]

Then you wouldn't have any room for the controls/jacks. Besides, that would need to be a 250 watt supply which is beyond most line lump external supplies.

Lots of laptops use 200W power bricks, and high-end gaming laptops use 300W+...though, as I said, they'll likely be larger than the amp. (Ever seen the power brick for any generation of Xbox?)

As mentioned, I have a couple solutions in mind that would allow extra controls on an ELF-sized box. Whether that's important is one question. Whether it's possible to add (for instance) a useful compressor circuit, without making the box larger, is another question!

 

[Hasty]

This. From the perspective of a UI designer, you've got very little room to work with, and several mandatory controls, without which the amp doesn't work at all:
Input jack
Gain
Master volume
Headphone out

Maybe you could mess with the EQ section? But:
There's no room to squeeze an extra knob in, because they'd be too small.
You could use sliders for the EQ, but they tend to break and the slider caps always fall off, especially on something that's supposed to live unprotected in a gig bag. And the amp is so light that you'd probably have to hold it down to move the slider!
You could replace one of the EQ knobs with a compressor or a couple switches, but in 2021 it's going to be difficult to tell people they can't have midrange EQ.

(That said, I have a couple solutions if any amp companies want to hire me )



They don't have to be! You could design an even smaller amp by using an external laptop power supply. (That is roughly the same size as the amp itself )

Honestly... I’d be willing to give up the headphone out and the entire EQ section if they could use that same space to make this in the 500 to 700 watt range. So many of us use a separate preamp. So a power switch, input, output, gain, and level. I don’t even want the DI, cause that comes off my pre. Heck... let’s make an even 1000watts and keep the price point in the same range. I’d probably buy two.

 

[agedhorse]

Lots of laptops use 200W power bricks, and high-end gaming laptops use 300W+...though, as I said, they'll likely be larger than the amp. (Ever seen the power brick for any generation of Xbox?)

As mentioned, I have a couple solutions in mind that would allow extra controls on an ELF-sized box. Whether that's important is one question. Whether it's possible to add (for instance) a useful compressor circuit, without making the box larger, is another question!

I haven't seen laptop supplies that large, 300 watts is impressive, especially passively cooled. Is that continuous???

 

[Freekmagnet]

One is clearly a gnome and one is clearly an elf. If you'd put in your time playing Dungeons & Dragons, you'd know that there is a huge difference.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

It’s just me who thinks this are the same amps?
View attachment 4245720View attachment 4245722 View attachment 4245723

Wattage are the same, equal layouts, it seems to me they are the same with some colour changes. I’ve never played none... What do you think?

I'd say they all sound different, and have different eq points on bass and mid.

 

[spatters]

I haven't seen laptop supplies that large, 300 watts is impressive, especially passively cooled. Is that continuous???

For OEM bricks, yes. Just the GPU on a gaming laptop can hit >100W TDP, and some reach over 200W. Then you have to add the CPU and the rest of the system.


Of course, all bets are off with aftermarket PSUs from ebay or amazon. However, I built a medium-size audio system with a 2+1 TPA3116 PCB much like this one:
TPA3116 Bluetooth HiFi Power Subwoofer 2.1 Channel Stereo Audio Amplifier Board | eBay
Which I power with a 80W ebay laptop brick that I had in the parts box, and is about the size and weight of a pack of cigarettes. I haven't yet blown it up, or the amp!

(If you don't need the Bluetooth, get the non-Bluetooth version, as the BT adds a perceptible noise floor. But it's a great little amp: you can find passive speakers for beans at thrift stores, often from broken surround systems, and put together a nice 2+1 system for your lab bench for very little money.)

 

[Jeff Scott]

...I have a couple solutions in mind that would allow extra controls on an ELF-sized box.

Here's one way to do so.

 

[Christophe C]

My Volkswagen is the same as my neighbor’s Toyota : 4 wheels, same power, steering wheel at the same place, 2 seats in front...

 

[MOTORHEADBANGER]

Here's one way to do so.

View attachment 4246583

Oh late Fender-era SWR, how underwhelming you were.

 

[whero]

Oh late Fender-era SWR, how underwhelming you were.

Not sure he was trying to whelm anyone - just show that stacked knobs give you a bunch of extra controls for the same panel real estate.

 

[BlueTalon]

It’s just me who thinks this are the same amps?

I dunno... Would you ever suspect an Ampeg SVT and a Sunn Coliseum of being essentially the same amp because they are big?

 

[Jibudo]

Wow, so many replys, great!

Sometimes i imagine a lot of things, so, after seeing this almost exactly equal layouts (even the colour of the leds and their description) i thought that some chinese guy from a big electronics factory in china designed an amp and then aproached some other peolple from (insert amp brand here) and said: “ Hey, i have this cool amp i can produce for you for cheap in my big factory, do you want to change some little things to make it more unique?”

And again, not bashing anyone, i would be tottaly cool with this scenario.

 

[chris_b]

The amp designers here say these amps are not the same, so how can anyone contradict them? Anyway, call me old-fashioned, but an amp the size of a couple of CD's has no interest for me when feature sets and layouts have to be so severely limited due to space constraints.