Bass buying: Cost vs Skill-driven?

[JRA]

like everyone else here: i have more chops now than when i started playing the instrument. my bass purchases over 40 years (cost), however, would appear as an arc: i'm now about where i started in some sense: when i was a newbie, i played basses off the rack because i could afford them. then i slowly demanded better instruments until i was having them built. then i started playing cheaper instruments (back to the rack!) because they were available, immediately. now i play whatever: and i'm really hung up on the cheapest of the cheap: if it feels correct and can be brought to my requirements (most can). since all of my players are fretless (often cheaper, anyway), i have some fun modding/upgrading them and making them suitable for my requirements (mostly a feel thing).

so: i'm way more skilled than i was, and i require less and less (bass=$) to exercise those skills. i can't feel good about playing just anything, but i no longer 'require' as much. i'm at a place where i would never consider a 'boutique' instrument, and i wouldn't have any built for me again (unless i learned to build it myself).

another 'arc' is that my basses have felt increasingly better to me over the years (because i have learned what i want/need): so my cheapest instruments, today, are way better players than my custom builds of the past.

 

[Nev375]

It amazes me how people can make something so simple into something so complicated.

Just buy the bass that suits you.

 

[40Hz]

I buy what sounds good to me at the time I buy it.

I don't feel the need to bring any other criteria into the equation.

 

[40Hz]

It amazes me how people can make something so simple into something so complicated.

Just buy the bass that suits you.

^This.

 

[Antisyzygy]

In this Bobby Vega demo, a bassist in the background discusses how he feels when playing his Fodera vs a Fender bass. He feels a responsibility to be better than he was [as a bassist].

This makes me wonder. Do players base budgets around their own skill? Or do they buy higher-priced instruments as a way of "growing a pair" and perfecting their craft?

Personally, I bought (and sold) a brand new American Standard Precision bass because I felt like ten years was an appropriate time to upgrade to an instrument of significant quality. A milestone gift of sorts.

What are your thoughts and experiences on the matter?

I base it on what I can afford predominately. Skill plays a lesser role.

If I was a professional bass player I'd be able to justify spending more on bass tools because that'd be how I make my money. It's the same thing with any other profession. If you do it day in, day out you buy the best tools for the job--perhaps even ergonomically set up just for you to save yourself injury or discomfort.

However that doesn't mean I wouldn't own the boutique if had more money. It just means I have to prioritize my limited resources and spend them accordingly. Since I don't do this professionally my spending cap is lower.

So that's where "skill" somewhat comes into play. I'm not a "pro" for a variety of reasons, one being skill, but more-so I just don't want to do that. I'd rather do my own thing with a band of close friends and if it works out it works out--I still got my steady day job.

At the end of the day I want something that sounds, looks and works the way I want it to. As it turns out I've found those in a lot of different price brackets. I bought cheap basses after buying expensive ones because the cheap one had something I liked about it.

I didn't think "Oh golly, this cheap bass is so below my skill level. I should just buy an American made blah blah blah". I thought "Hey cool, this bass kicks butt and it's cheap! I'm getting it!"

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I find that when I pick up a really nice instrument, I have more focus. This likely has a lot to do with the $$$ involved and really has nothing to do with the merits of the instrument. So yeah - I pick up a brand new, top-o-the-line Fender and say "eh, nice" and then I noodle some. I pick up a bottom of the line Fodera and say "daaaaaamn... gotta step it up!"

 

[KevInDaBassment]

I feel like i have the skills to appreciate my Thumb 6...I think this is why we have a lot of people saying their SX or low end Fender is just as good if not better than a Fodera, they just don't have the skill to appreciate a better bass.

Let me preface my reply with this in mind. I am quite certain you are a better player than me. Your profile reads "College degree in classical music on the DB and jazz BG as a second instrument". I have no such degree and probably don't even have as many years playing as you do (maybe not even half). So please keep in mind that my assertion is not a commentary on your objective skill level, but the concept in question.

The issue is that nobody can express anything more than an opinion on the matter. You, and probably most people here, would say you utilize your bass adequately. To a virtuoso with an ego issue, you may not. It's like trying to quantify which is the best color for a P-bass, it's not something you can really make a hard statement on. Anyone could say either thing and neither is right or wrong...as far as trying to make a case on it, it's a wash.

I realize your last point was illustrative and probably wasn't a literal assertion, but perhaps a Squier CV vs an Am. Std. Fender would be a more fair comparison for me to use for my point. I hear people make that comparison very frequently. There's some Fenders that are stinkers and some Squiers that are too, of course there are some great ones from both too. When I read that, people are often referring to the value of the instrument in comparison to the other. Though they say "yeah the Squier was better than an American Standard", value is what's being assessed as well whether stated or not.

I seriously doubt that, with the exception of a brand new player, someone with a decent handle on the bass guitar is mentally incapable of comprehending the quality of a boutique bass as compared to something more standard fare. If that were the case, we'd have to assert that Geddy Lee, Steve Harris, and Geezer Butler all just don't have the skill to appreciate a Fodera or Wal because they don't/didn't play one predominantly (or, at least they don't anymore, like Geddy). I actually like Warwick tone and craftsmanship quite a bit, but I can't stand the necks on them and the price doesn't match what I'd pay considering my dislike of their necks. Another thing to consider is that some people may value an expensive instrument as less important than other factors in their signal chain. Perhaps someone would prefer to play a Mexican P-bass, but through a set of Heritage SVTs and 8x10s instead of a Markbass combo or GK rig. Maybe they spend their money on expensive pedals for tone shaping as opposed to an expensive bass as well. I think chalking up different tastes to "skill" is a bit of a stretch...

 

[the explode man]

Probably part of it. I dunno. EBMM Sterlings feel like they were made for me. If you gave me a $10k, I wouldn't necessarily like it more.

 

[AudioDwebe]

I think you have a point.

Oh, WOW!

How totally cool!

edit: And I want one.

 

[Eilif]

This makes me wonder. Do players base budgets around their own skill? Or do they buy higher-priced instruments as a way of "growing a pair" and perfecting their craft?

Personally, I bought (and sold) a brand new American Standard Precision bass because I felt like ten years was an appropriate time to upgrade to an instrument of significant quality. A milestone gift of sorts.

I've got mixed feelings about this. Of course there are alot of folks with the cash to buy gear regardless of their skill level but setting that aside, I have tended to purchase better gear when I felt that my level of competence was moving upward. Of course I've also purchased better gear in the pursuit of a particular tone, look or feel.

I've definitely experienced a better instrument helping me to play better and at the same time inspiring me to play better. My first bass was a MIM P-bass and I played it for 5 years or so. When I bought my first bass for myself it was a custom Carvin fretless. It helped me play better and inspired me to spend ALOT more time playing. I got alot better after buying that bass.

On the other hand, 16 years later, my recent acquisition of a Carlo (by far the most expensive and highest quality instrument I've ever owned) was not because my chops had recently gotten better, but it was largely because after 20+ years of playing and around as many basses owned over that period, I had an rather precise idea of what I wanted from a bass sonically and ergonomically and it fit the bill perfectly.

 

[LT131]

No but Bobby Vega is the greatest bass player that ever was.

He sure plays a boutique bass too!

 

[bdplaid]

Reading the replies got me thinking: what is a better instrument...

I have two demands of a bass: It has to sound the way i want it to, and it has to play the way I want it to.

Sometimes these can be massaged or corrected, but I think what makes a "better' instrument is one that can be properly set up.

I have had some low end basses that played like a dream after a great setup (meaning fretwork, etc), but I've also had them that were just beyond (make that below) any saving. Interestingly, I've had high end basses that were the same. I recently sold one $2000+ high-end bass that played killer, but sounded awful. Even my drummer told me to never bring it again. I've got another full custom made by a major boutique that weighs a ton, sounds OK and plays OK, but nothing exceptional.

So what's a high end bass? For me, one that plays and sounds the way I want, or is good enough to be made that way.

Having said that, I definitely play better on such an instrument. And maybe not so much my skill level, but my wisdom and preferences gained from years of playing, is what determines what I like and what I don't.

 

[LT131]

When I decided to take up bass a bit more deliberately instead of being a dabbler, one of the reasons I went straight for a hight end bass was because my experience of guitar buying over the years taught me that by the time I'd bought and sold and traded up down etc etc on my guitars over the years, by the time I got to my dream guitar I'd spent a lot of money. So I thought rather than do that again for bass I'd just jump in the high end and hope that would cost me less in the long run. I wasn't a decent player by any stretch of the imagination and because the bass I bought was highly resonant I spent a lot of time on my technique to keep the sound clean. I'm still not a fantastic player but I do play well enough to get gigs and dep spots with experienced musicians. If skill level was the overriding factor when buying a bass then I shouldn't be playing the basses I do. However life is too short so buy what you like and can afford cash, credit by whatever honest means neccessary.

I 'm curious what is a high-end guitar these days? All i ever see are the usual Fenders, Gibbys and the occasional Paul Reid Smith. Or are you referring to acoustics? It seems like there are a lot more boutique options in basses which is odder cause there's less of us.

 

[BrewsterRooster]

Interesting question, actually...

I've tried some expensive boutique basses that were fantastic in virtually every regard, and others that I simply couldn't get excited about. And even though I'm fortunate in the sense that if I really, really wanted a $5000 instrument, I could probably make it happen, but I've never spent more than a grand on a single bass. I seek a similar emotional alchemy with a bass as I would with any other romantic interest. Form, function, and feel, all in that precarious, elusive balance that gets my heart involved. And it just so happens that every bass I've ever personally bonded with on this level has been purchased in the sub-$1k price range (no discussion about resale value will be forthcoming). Maybe I'm cheap, or maybe I'm just a mediocre player with a penchant for pedestrian beer and trashy women, but whatever. Life's short. Gotta run with with whatever flips your pickle.

In some way I do think there's a vague correlation between the cost of an instrument and the skill set of the operator, assuming we can agree to ignore the subset of "players" who will spend $10k on instruments they have no discernible competency for. But among actual musicians, I think the need to bond with their instrument(s) is pretty much universal. Higher priced instruments tend to feature attributes that are truly worthy of more advanced end users - people who really know how to use the extended tonal palette, string count, boutique electronics, exotic body woods and mojo to their musical benefit. In the hands of such a person, a more expensive tool may well be the best fit for the job, whereas in the hands of an incompetent, the same tool is nothing but a diamond-studded conversation piece.

Then again, the whole argument can be tilted a bit when one considers the range of "signature series" instruments that have been produced by the big-name manufacturers. Some were specified with extensive feature sets and classy materials that warrant big pricetags, others have very stripped-down feature sets with moderately priced materials, but the signature artists themselves may independently be worth the GDPs of small nations and be perfectly capable of purchasing absolutely anything they wanted. So why the discrepancy in the pricepoints of their preferred instruments?

I guess in the end, I'm forced to come right back to "whatever flips your pickle" and process it no further.

 

[Panther]

Does that make them perform less or less safe for the driver?

It means anyone can buy anything they want regardless if their skill matches the potential of what they bought.

 

[BobKos]

If I like a bass enough, I buy it. Sometimes I buy without playing first via internet. If I like it I keep it. I'm not rich and I'm an amateur player. I like playing bass to my skill level and good instruments are part of that enjoyment. They make the whole experience funner. That's what it's all about for me.

 

[Matthew Fisher]

This makes me wonder. Do players base budgets around their own skill? Or do they buy higher-priced instruments as a way of "growing a pair" and perfecting their craft?

Considering the stereotype about bass players, I think you overlooked the high cost of alcohol and drugs.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

But "better" is subjective. Just because something cost more does not automatically make it better.

in the bass and music instrument world ... yeah it is better. Better hardware, better cured wood, prettier wood, better neck joint, come with better pickup, the f-ing frets don't sprout each side of the neck etc.

It may not be better because of neck profile or the weight but otherwise

Don't tell me your Squire is magically better than a Sadowsky even though both have that Fender-ish nature

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Let me preface my reply with this in mind. I am quite certain you are a better player than me. Your profile reads "College degree in classical music on the DB and jazz BG as a second instrument". I have no such degree and probably don't even have as many years playing as you do (maybe not even half). So please keep in mind that my assertion is not a commentary on your objective skill level, but the concept in question.

The issue is that nobody can express anything more than an opinion on the matter. You, and probably most people here, would say you utilize your bass adequately. To a virtuoso with an ego issue, you may not. It's like trying to quantify which is the best color for a P-bass, it's not something you can really make a hard statement on. Anyone could say either thing and neither is right or wrong...as far as trying to make a case on it, it's a wash.

I realize your last point was illustrative and probably wasn't a literal assertion, but perhaps a Squier CV vs an Am. Std. Fender would be a more fair comparison for me to use for my point. I hear people make that comparison very frequently. There's some Fenders that are stinkers and some Squiers that are too, of course there are some great ones from both too. When I read that, people are often referring to the value of the instrument in comparison to the other. Though they say "yeah the Squier was better than an American Standard", value is what's being assessed as well whether stated or not.

I seriously doubt that, with the exception of a brand new player, someone with a decent handle on the bass guitar is mentally incapable of comprehending the quality of a boutique bass as compared to something more standard fare. If that were the case, we'd have to assert that Geddy Lee, Steve Harris, and Geezer Butler all just don't have the skill to appreciate a Fodera or Wal because they don't/didn't play one predominantly (or, at least they don't anymore, like Geddy). I actually like Warwick tone and craftsmanship quite a bit, but I can't stand the necks on them and the price doesn't match what I'd pay considering my dislike of their necks. Another thing to consider is that some people may value an expensive instrument as less important than other factors in their signal chain. Perhaps someone would prefer to play a Mexican P-bass, but through a set of Heritage SVTs and 8x10s instead of a Markbass combo or GK rig. Maybe they spend their money on expensive pedals for tone shaping as opposed to an expensive bass as well. I think chalking up different tastes to "skill" is a bit of a stretch...

Who knows about your preface.

Taste has nothing to do with my point of view. One could love a Fender MIM and prefer to play it because of the neck because of the story of the instrument or it has a color that can't be reproduce or whatever, the player could be the best player of the world ...

But that player could tell that the Fodera is way better made than his MIM but the MIM fit his style, his sound etc he could still choose to use the MIM even though the fret sprout both side of the neck, the action isn't perfect etc

My problem was with people saying their Squire like is as good if not better than Fender MIA ... come one it can't. My view may be skew because in classical music the instrument is trully better when it cost more but what is the point of owning a 100 000 DB when you can barelly play a scale ... you probably play worst on the 100 000$ DB than the 2000$ DB because it reacts better to every nuance in playing and it isn't what the person needed at that time. So for that person the 2000$ DB is better than the 100 000$ even though everything about the most expensive instrument is better on every aspect. Maybe that person will play big gig and earn a lot of money on that 2000$ who knows. It still doesn't mean the 2000$ is better.

 

[el_Bajo_Verde]

in the bass and music instrument world ... yeah it is better. Better hardware, better cured wood, prettier wood, better neck joint, come with better pickup, the f-ing frets don't sprout each side of the neck etc.

It may not be better because of neck profile or the weight but otherwise

Don't tell me your Squire is magically better than a Sadowsky even though both have that Fender-ish nature

You're making a lot of assumptions based on things I never said in that post. Perhaps you quoted the wrong post by accident.

I'm simply stating that too many people judge solely based on the price and brand name.

"Better" will always be subjective, and I will never be brainwashed into becoming a slave to the name on a headstock.