We play average bar gigs. The issue is FoH and its a valid one, we do need more kick. It's barely above acoustic level, stage volume is fine. This has apparently been a sore point for a few years and one of those old band dynamics that needs to be put to rest. I'm the new guy so I was willing to help solve the problem with no drama but since properly eq'ing the pa is the only thing that makes any sense at all then drama there will have to be, polite drama but drama none the less.
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Bass drum through my rig
- Thread starter Warmuth
- Start date
You are walking on eggshells with an over sensitive, insecure guitar player that needs to grow up!
There, I've said it.
Strong language, but isn't it true.
.
There, I've said it.
Strong language, but isn't it true.
.
How does your drummer know what he sounds like in the pa? Indeed how do you know how you sound out front? If you are putting bass through the pa and it sounds good then so should the kick. Trying to judge the outfront sound from your stage position is flawed at best. Even monitors won't give you an accurate enough representation for eq purposes especially when the monitors are wedges.
I'm integued by the idea of putting the kick through the bass rig. I would only consider doing it if the on stage monitoring was bad and I couldn't hear it well enough. I would be very careful to keep the level as low as possible so as not to upset the out front sound and would definately not send a stage 'mixed' bass and kick to any sound man with a brain under any circumstances other than desperate. The stage is not the place for mixing anything from especially instruments so sensitive to room resonances as bass instruments.
It sounds to me like a difference of opinion about production / mixing values or your drummer isnt aware that the sound he hears onstage is probably much different to the sound out front. Trying to undermine anyone taking responsibility for the overall mix by starting a volume war is a very bad idea in my opinion. He could always try to get his drum sound accross better by experimenting with tuning, carrying a preferred mic or tuning his drum differently whilst using the pa cabs at a rehearsal where you can have them facing the band.
I wouldn't be worried about a kick drum going through my bass cab. I might roll off some sub frequencies though just to stop them eating up my rigs headrom and dynamics. Same when using a mic anywhere even more so on a stage with a lot of bass rattling everything.
I'm integued by the idea of putting the kick through the bass rig. I would only consider doing it if the on stage monitoring was bad and I couldn't hear it well enough. I would be very careful to keep the level as low as possible so as not to upset the out front sound and would definately not send a stage 'mixed' bass and kick to any sound man with a brain under any circumstances other than desperate. The stage is not the place for mixing anything from especially instruments so sensitive to room resonances as bass instruments.
It sounds to me like a difference of opinion about production / mixing values or your drummer isnt aware that the sound he hears onstage is probably much different to the sound out front. Trying to undermine anyone taking responsibility for the overall mix by starting a volume war is a very bad idea in my opinion. He could always try to get his drum sound accross better by experimenting with tuning, carrying a preferred mic or tuning his drum differently whilst using the pa cabs at a rehearsal where you can have them facing the band.
I wouldn't be worried about a kick drum going through my bass cab. I might roll off some sub frequencies though just to stop them eating up my rigs headrom and dynamics. Same when using a mic anywhere even more so on a stage with a lot of bass rattling everything.
I've done it on and off over the years, and I've never come close to damaging anything. Most of the PAs I've been around were mostly just for vocals and small guitar amps, and the drummer's sound suffered-especially when outside. I'd just throw a mic on the kick, run it into my spare channel, crank the volume 'til you get a solid feel. You won't get a chest thumping crusher sound, but you can definitely hear the difference, and the drummer will have to buy you beer all night....
i dont think you should give up the headroom in your amp (and clutter your sound) and run it harder because the bands pa wont do what the drummer what wants to hear. the one who is whining should buy the subs
QFT!
I might have the drummer invest in a cheap but good rack-style compressor (RNC?) and then run that treated signal into my bass amp. Although I use both of my channels at various times, I would not be too happy myself having to give up a channel to the bass drum... it may be worth it in the long haul. Maybe run the kick in through the effects return? Then you get to keep both of your channels (might be tricky if your fx loop is "per channel", then you'd need to run the kick into both returns to make sure the kick is always present no matter which channel you use. For the effects loop route to work you might want the drummer to also invest in a small Mackie mixer, which would give you some EQ and an easy way to insert the compressor. I might be leery of running an unconditioned kick signal into my amp, although it appears others have done this without problems.
funny as that seems the rhythm section's contribution is why you are listening to that tune at all.
From the amp point of view it´ll be ok. It´s made to handle low frequences.
If your drummer kicksout the kick, don´t worry about that, just turn down the gain of the pre-amp for the kick. You need to have a separate channel for the kick mic and majority of bass amps don´t come with mic pre-amps built in. So you may need a mic pre also.....
If your drummer kicksout the kick, don´t worry about that, just turn down the gain of the pre-amp for the kick. You need to have a separate channel for the kick mic and majority of bass amps don´t come with mic pre-amps built in. So you may need a mic pre also.....
Tell the guitarist to put it through his amp.
Hire a sound person to tutor you all in mixing.
Or hire him regularly.
.Hire a sound person to tutor you all in mixing.
Or hire him regularly.
Tell the guitarist to put it through his amp
Hire a sound person to tutor you all in mixing.
Or hire him regularly.
LOL, this!
His amp is not designed to handle electric bass and a kick drum. This could be a different attack at a slightly different time. We wouldn't even be here on TB if most amps even did one thing well.
Please detail your sound setup. Maybe you don't have the firepower for big kick and possibly your bass sound is actually all from the stage.
If you do have a kickarse system your guitar player is an idiot. Trying to get the gig level kick out of your rig onstage behind his back would be making you a bigger idiot though.
If you do have a kickarse system your guitar player is an idiot. Trying to get the gig level kick out of your rig onstage behind his back would be making you a bigger idiot though.
no actually its not that hard to make a kick drum loud enough to be heard without a PA.
but yet so many drummers like to use double ply heads and stuff and mute the heck out of them so you dont hear them.
cut holes in them or whatever goober things that seems to be the way to do it.
making a great sounding cardboard box
Just get a 26" bass drum use single ply heads and run a ludwig 60's style damper on the batter side only....kaboom
you have to know how to tune it too...most dont
but yet so many drummers like to use double ply heads and stuff and mute the heck out of them so you dont hear them.
cut holes in them or whatever goober things that seems to be the way to do it.
making a great sounding cardboard box
Just get a 26" bass drum use single ply heads and run a ludwig 60's style damper on the batter side only....kaboom
you have to know how to tune it too...most dont
First, stop letting the guitarist run the FOH. Next, get a decent soundguy.
Running the kick(s) through your bass rig is just wrong and will not yield results anyone will ( or at least should) be happy with. You need decent subs, a decent kick mic and someone who knows how to properly place it and EQ it.
Running the kick(s) through your bass rig is just wrong and will not yield results anyone will ( or at least should) be happy with. You need decent subs, a decent kick mic and someone who knows how to properly place it and EQ it.
Maybe the bass is too loud and you're stepping on his frequency. How about just turning down the bass instead?
Shucks, backline bar gig a few months ago, I got some locals to pull half the stuffing out of their kick drum, kaboom!
They put it all straight back in. They actually like their cardboard box sound.
