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Bass Guitar / Rhythm Guitar / Drums relationship

#41
In amateur big bands I frequently face discussing this problem with a guitarist who's not schooled on style or cooperative playing. The first approach is always, "If you stay on the high side of the strings and away from the sixth, we'll blend better." When that inevitably has no effect, I say, "Stay off that !@#$% sixth string or I'll cut it off." Sometimes that works.
 
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#46
byacey said:
I'm accustomed to being free to go where I want with the bass, creating lines
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...Free to go where I want with the bass = the guitarist didn't even notice. I wonder what the hell he was listening to?

Maybe, the guitar player was thinking, "What the hell is that bass player doing? That bass player is all over the fretboard!"

Just kidding!!!
 
#48
byacey said:
I'm from the old school where in 4/4, if the bass is playing 2 to the bar, he plays on beat 1 and 3, and rhythm guitar takes 2 and 4 for his chords on the back beat.
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What genre are you describing here? Most of the music I like isn't arranged like that. Certain individual songs are, sure, but not the majority.

(If it matters, I mostly like a variety of rock music, from blues-rock, pop-rock, country-rock through to hard-rock, melodic metal and prog-metal.)
 
#49
nnnnnn said:
What genre are you describing here? Most of the music I like isn't arranged like that. Certain individual songs are, sure, but not the majority.

(If it matters, I mostly like a variety of rock music, from blues-rock, pop-rock, country-rock through to hard-rock, melodic metal and prog-metal.)
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Let's see, Big Band, Jazz, Traditional Country, Old Time, Tango, European continental, Polka, Latino, Old Pop ie. Dean Martin, Rosemary Clooney, Caterina Valente, Les Paul, Chet Atkins, Acker Bilk, Paul Mauriat, Fausto Papetti, Stephane Grappelli, Linda Ronstadt, Julie London, Dionne Warwick , Richard Galliano, Jo Stafford, Placido Domingo, etc. etc.

These performers all use this general rhythm section formula.
 
#51
byacey said:
These performers all use this general rhythm section formula.
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OK, cool. Quite different to the styles of music I normally listen to, so I guess that explains the different rhythm styles too. I occasionally listen to a small number of the artists you mention (for example I like Stephane Grappelli), but not often enough to have picked up on that rhythm formula as being as ubiquitous within all those genres as you suggest.
 
#52
It could be that the guitarist simply doesn't understand theory, and/or isn't listening to what's going on. In my beginner days it was all I could do to concentrate on the drums & vocals and finding a place to fit— the guitars & keys were nowhere on my radar... so, it could be he doesn't have the experience yet...

...or, it could be he's just a selfish player.

Perhaps there is a chance he will be open to some constructive criticism, then you have the opportunity to help him grow and make it a stronger band.

Best of luck!
 
#54
Sounds like a straightforward case of someone not knowing the vocabulary for the music in question. That's always rough and can be next to impossible to fix on the bandstand. Could also just be someone who doesn't care enough to take a disciplined approach to playing. I have to say I've been pretty lucky with most of the rhythm guitarists I've played with on any kind of regular basis.
 
#55
Rock Salad said:
If the other player is consistantly playing the downbeats, it could be fun to play the offbeat or a clave.
?
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When I played the back beat for the couple measures, I was looking directly at the guitarist; he didn't show any sign of recognizing something wasn't right. The other musicians were looking around in bewilderment. I suppose if I had a clave it would have sounded more appropriate, since the rhythm appeared to want to cover the rhythm and bass himself.
 
#58
byacey said:
Let's see, Big Band, Jazz, Traditional Country, Old Time, Tango, European continental, Polka, Latino, Old Pop ie. Dean Martin, Rosemary Clooney, Caterina Valente, Les Paul, Chet Atkins, Acker Bilk, Paul Mauriat, Fausto Papetti, Stephane Grappelli, Linda Ronstadt, Julie London, Dionne Warwick , Richard Galliano, Jo Stafford, Placido Domingo, etc. etc.
Click to expand...

Are you like 100 years old?

Anyway, this thread is bizarre to me, because there's no one size fits all formula in music that works all the time. So maybe you need to be a little less rigid in your thinking and maybe the band as a whole needs to work on arrangements more in rehearsals. But some music is simply going to be more guitar heavy, and if you're playing classic rock, guess what? You're soaking in it. Take "takin care of business" but have the guitar just on the upbeats. Congratulations BTO on your first reggae hit.

Now, personally, if I'm playing guitar or keys in a band I'm more likely to do something syncopated, poly metric, or whatever because my background is more from a prog and funk place, so I like things to be rhythmically, harmonically, and melodically interesting. But these threads always come off as selfish to me. Or the "keyboard player plays too low" threads. I mean, a great synth bass part mixed bass guitar, a la Jamiroquai, etc..., is a thing of beauty in a lot of contexts. if you're talking about originals, it's about coming up with a great arrangement. If you're too locked into "traditions" and formulas, those great arrangements will probably elude you in most cases. For covers, it's just about experimenting with what works. Sometimes you WANT a big guitar sound and the bass fills in underneath. A good sound guy will make that work great, EQ slotting each instrument so they fit together like tetris pieces.
 
#59
100? Nah, I'm only half-way there.
I don't like hearing dissonance, except on diminished, flat 5s and 9s, etc where called for. If I'm playing B and the guitar player is playing his low C over top of me, I be not liking that sound. The voices have to be spread out more to avoid this issue.

For the genres and artists I mentioned, this general formula tends to work quite well.
 

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