For the last week I've been fantasizing about a bass guitar designed with strings that could handle the string tension of a double bass (60lbs per string instead of the usual 40lbs). How will this affect tone and will it be a meaningfull change?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Bass guitar with upright string tension
- Thread starter long_ahh_bahh
- Start date
The Rotosound heavy set of Monel Flats, as used by Steve Harris, averages over 60 lb per string:
50 - 62 lb, 75 - 71 lbs, 95 - 69 lbs, 110 - 51
He says, "They’re such a heavy gauge that they tend to bow the neck unless you have a really solid neck, like I have."
So, an old-fashioned deep, wide Precision neck does the job.
Edit: here's those strings on a P-bass like that:
50 - 62 lb, 75 - 71 lbs, 95 - 69 lbs, 110 - 51
He says, "They’re such a heavy gauge that they tend to bow the neck unless you have a really solid neck, like I have."
So, an old-fashioned deep, wide Precision neck does the job.
Edit: here's those strings on a P-bass like that:
Last edited:
"That's tendonitis-city bro" good sounding bass/strings combo
You’ll stress the neck of your bass and your wrists. To get really good at bass, you need to practice for many years. If your wrists are shot, you’ll never reach your potential. I’d recommend against it.
I also like the twang of strings at relatively low tension (35 pounds). For me, higher tension is a negative w.r.t. tone.
I also like the twang of strings at relatively low tension (35 pounds). For me, higher tension is a negative w.r.t. tone.
You might enjoy this thread: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/la-bella-760fl-exact-string-tension.1302731/
I use LaBella Deep-Talkin' Flats on an Ibanez SRHF500 - not exactly a hefty neck, although the Ibby has a 5-piece neck. The strings make the Ibby sound more like a DB than the ones that came with it, although there's only so much you can do with a 34" scale.
I use LaBella Deep-Talkin' Flats on an Ibanez SRHF500 - not exactly a hefty neck, although the Ibby has a 5-piece neck. The strings make the Ibby sound more like a DB than the ones that came with it, although there's only so much you can do with a 34" scale.
D
A DB has a drastically longer scale length than any BG - 43" or so if memory serves.
That probably matters.
That probably matters.
People are saying you’ll injure yourself, but I don’t think that’s a sure thing. Like anything, use good technique. Upright bass players sometimes use high tension stings, and they’re not falling down dead.
As far as ruining the neck, yeah, you’ll need a stiff strong neck or a good amount of truss adjustment range. No big deal.
Different strings in general impact tone and playability, so yes, very high tension ones will too. I don’t know if I can put it into words, but I think that video is helpful.
As far as ruining the neck, yeah, you’ll need a stiff strong neck or a good amount of truss adjustment range. No big deal.
Different strings in general impact tone and playability, so yes, very high tension ones will too. I don’t know if I can put it into words, but I think that video is helpful.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
As a double bassist who plays light-to-medium gauges and a half synthetic gut/half metal wrapped set, this sounds..... painful. Yeah, there are masochists on double bass who want Spirocore Starks cranked up as high as possible.... but it ain't ideal, or normal.
Tension and feel on upright vs electric are 2 totally different worlds, because the physical demands and technique are different in terms of pulling the sound out of the instrument. The same 'tension' on electric bass would feel like the instrument would be better suited for archery or cheese grating than making music. Higher tension doesn't equal better tone either, on electric and upright. In fact, on upright some basses speak better and have more projection with lighter tension strings.
I prefer light gauges on my electric basses, but some actually sound and feel better with mediums.... depends on the bass. Never have I ever desired to have 'upright tension' on EB though. Hoo boy.
Tension and feel on upright vs electric are 2 totally different worlds, because the physical demands and technique are different in terms of pulling the sound out of the instrument. The same 'tension' on electric bass would feel like the instrument would be better suited for archery or cheese grating than making music. Higher tension doesn't equal better tone either, on electric and upright. In fact, on upright some basses speak better and have more projection with lighter tension strings.
I prefer light gauges on my electric basses, but some actually sound and feel better with mediums.... depends on the bass. Never have I ever desired to have 'upright tension' on EB though. Hoo boy.
Last edited:
In many cases, the appeal for high-tension strings on EB is so the strings aren't too floppy when downtuning. That's more a practicality than a tonal preference, but I can't say a higher tension string is going to have a set characteristic across every model/set of available strings (that I know of). While there may be some difference in gauges, I can't imagine it will be a walloping difference compared to changing string brands, models, or material types (SS vs NPS or Rounds vs Flats).
When I first started out, I had the idea of getting big, thick strings so my hands would get strong and I could play anything. Well, I ended up being too forceful and not having as much control when playing lighter sets, kind of defeating the purpose. If the strings sound and feel good, practice with what you'll use. It's far more about technique and finesse than brute strength. Just my $0.02....
When I first started out, I had the idea of getting big, thick strings so my hands would get strong and I could play anything. Well, I ended up being too forceful and not having as much control when playing lighter sets, kind of defeating the purpose. If the strings sound and feel good, practice with what you'll use. It's far more about technique and finesse than brute strength. Just my $0.02....
Scale length plays a big part in how stiff a string feels - the shorter the scale, the stiffer the string will feel.
i.e. 60lbs will likely feel much stiffer on a 34" electric than on an 3/4 upright - so in a sense, (in general) "normal electric tension" already is in the ballpark of what an upright tension would feel like.
i.e. 60lbs will likely feel much stiffer on a 34" electric than on an 3/4 upright - so in a sense, (in general) "normal electric tension" already is in the ballpark of what an upright tension would feel like.
to paraphrase @Ricky Rioli ; Steve Harris is your Huckleberry
Last edited:
A couple things:
1) a multi piece neck is not any stiffer than a 1 piece one.
2) When you put really high tension strings on a skinny neck, it’s gonna bow. It sounds more like an upright because, with the neck bowed, fret clank disappears.
You can get the same result with light strings and a high setup.
Many upright strings wouldn’t be at extreme tension on a 34” scale. By the way, there are a lot of different types of upright bass strings that vary significantly in tension, some with no metal of any kind in the string. Some with only metal winding on nylon / perlon core. Those strings probably wouldn’t be as high tension as many EB strings.
How it would affect tone? The vast majority of upright strings would probably be significantly less bright than many EB strings. Non-metallic upright strings would be silent except for what little acoustic tone they can generate.
Would it be a meaningful change? All in the ear of the listener…
How it would affect tone? The vast majority of upright strings would probably be significantly less bright than many EB strings. Non-metallic upright strings would be silent except for what little acoustic tone they can generate.
Would it be a meaningful change? All in the ear of the listener…
I think the upright playing position is more ergonomic and keeps your wrists in a more natural position vs. Bass guitar, so that plays a role too.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
You are also pulling the string with your entire body (finger, hand, forearm, shoulder) on upright in order to pull the tone out. If you play double bass like you play electric, you will injure yourself very quickly and also get a poor tone. It's a totally different instrument.
When I was learning Upright at school, we were allowed occasionally to bring our electrics in. I had a Hofner HS 185 with Roto Trubass strings. They were .065 - .115, a bit heavy for me. But other guy in my class who had an electric had this thing: a Commodore. The string height made it unplayable for me. The strings were like bridge cables, and half an inch off the board at 12th fret.
Attachments
Let's put all this another way:
What are you hoping to accomplish?
What type of tone do you want your instrument to produce?
As one who plays electric and upright, I don't quite see the correlation or the rationale for wanting to do this. At one point I strung my P-bass with a .50 - .110 set to see if it would give me a bigger sound (vs. a .45 - .105 gauged set which is what I normally use) and it really didn't - it sounded about the same and was it just more difficult to play with any nuance.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
This right here. 100%. Past a certain point, especially on electric, it becomes about a physical workout and the ego saying 'I must be WORKING HARD for this to be valid'... versus making music. We're playing musical instruments, not working out in the gym.
I used to crank my bridge up on my double bass because that's what people told me you were 'supposed to do'. I couldn't play anything with nuance, and as a result my tone and playing were less clear and more labored. Lower bridge, lighter tension strings.... more nuance and BETTER TONE! And my bridge/strings aren't nearly as low as some people have them out there still. Balance is key. YMMV.
I was taught a good portion of your tone on upright comes from how you pluck the note and to use the side of your finger not the tip like playing electric. I tried Rotosound flats and liked them but I decided to take them off my bass because it is a 66 P bass and the tension was high enough to concern me but playing them was not an issue. I often use T.I. flats and I have 2 string through body P basses one a 53 and one a Dusty Hill. On the 53 the tension seems much higher than on the Dusty Hill? go figure. A good string for you to try would be Fender Flats they are not quite as high tension as the Rotos
Latest posts
-
-
Would you play gigs with a band that doesn't have a great PA?- Latest: Thumpin6string
-
-
-