Double Bass Bass humidifier question

[MrPeel]

Hi guys

I'm thinking about getting a humidifier for my upright to combat the cruel Canadian winter that will no doubt be here sooner rather than later.

What do you guys recommend? I've seem those rope ones that hang in the f holes. The only reason I'm weary of them is because I've seem people use string suspended humidifiers in classical guitar sound holes and they can cause mold! I actually had one and was told to put like a capful of bleach into a large jug of distilled water, but that just cased decay on the humidifier itself.

What do you guys use to keep your bass healthy?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Room humidifier. You want around 40% in the winter.

 

[isolated]

Room humidifier. You want around 40% in the winter.

Absolutely. I have the Venta Airwasher which, though expensive, is worth it. The motor on mine crapped out this past March after 7 years, but is replaceable for far less than the cost of a new one. Dampits or other "in-the-bass" humidifiers can do more harm than good.

 

[MrPeel]

Awesome!... well not awesome in terms of expense, but at least now I know a good way to go about humidifying the room.... probably has some health benefits as well!

 

[bassphase]

I don't use a heater (mild winters in SF) so I actually have to use a room dehumidifier in winter to compensate for the rainy season where my music room will get to about 55% humidity or more without it.


Bob

 

[Mark Gollihur]

Room humidifier. You want around 40% in the winter.

+1

That said, the reason that many people have mold problems with the "f-hole dangle" style humidifier is because they oversoak them. If water is dripping when you put it into the bass, you're doing it wrong. A quick wring-out so that it's DAMP but not saturated is key.

But yeah, a room humidifier is way more healthy - for both your bass and you.

 

[drurb]

As I've posted here many times before, even if you are careful about wringing out a dampit, it can still drip! Unless you make it so dry as to be useless, there is substantial danger. You can do the experiment for yourself. Wring out a dampit and hang it up over a parer towel or the like. Leave it for twelve hours. It'll likely drip.

Also, keep in mind that a dampit is of no use unless the bass is closed in a bag or case. If it's not, then you're basically humidifying the room (ever so slightly) because the air from the room is in "communication" with the air in the bass.

I use an evaporative humidifer along with the handy device discussed here.

 

[DHoss]

The November 2012 issue of Consumer Reports rates tabletop and console humidifiers.
The top-rated tabletop unit, the Hunter 31004, is claimed to humidify up to 154 sq ft ultrasonically ($35).
The top-rated console, the Essick MA1201 covers 2,500 sq ft ($120), says the magazine.

For the DIY'ers:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[damonsmith]

I don't have a single doubt that what you are saying here is gospel - I have come to trust you in such matters. Even still, my bass is happier with a humidifier in it here in Houston. In the SF Bay Area it made it un-happy.

As I've posted here many times before, even if you are careful about wringing out a dampit, it can still drip! Unless you make it so dry as to be useless, there is substantial danger. You can do the experiment for yourself. Wring out a dampit and hang it up over a parer towel or the like. Leave it for twelve hours. It'll likely drip.

Also, keep in mind that a dampit is of no use unless the bass is closed in a bag or case. If it's not, then you're basically humidifying the room (ever so slightly) because the air from the room is in "communication" with the air in the bass.

I use an evaporative humidifer along with the handy device discussed here.

 

[gerry grable]

Also, keep in mind that a dampit is of no use unless the bass is closed in a bag or case. If it's not, then you're basically humidifying the room (ever so slightly) because the air from the room is in "communication" with the air in the bass.

I repectfully disagree with the above. Dampits are not "of no use." Granted. . . you have to wet them at more frequent intervals, but the moisture is released inside the bass before it exits through the F holes. Also, being "closed in a bag or case" is something I have never done. It surely could produce mold or mildew or even wood rot under the right (wrong!) circumstances.
By the way-- before there ever were such things as dampits, I used to use two small sponges tied on a piece of string which I dangled through the F holes.

 

[Damon Rondeau]

After the neglect-and-mould issue, the biggest problem with dampits is this one: the atmosphere is very, very large and dampits are very, very small. The simile of a fart in a windstorm is apt, I think.

You can screw up wooden objects if you humidify or de-humidify excessively or inappropriately. It's not simply about maintaining a certain number. It's about being in equilibrium with the environment and avoiding rapid change -- to reach that equilibrium gently. In many cases, doing nothing is the most appropriate thing. In other words, you really can do harm if you do the wrong thing. I don't think anybody should mess around with humidity interventions unless: 1) they know a little bit about wood and humidity; and, 2) they measure their local humidity and know what their normals are.

 

[gerry grable]

Good points to ponder from you as usual.
"Equilibrium" is certainly the goal and a major drawback of the dampits is that the inside of the bass is damp while the outside with it's varnish is dry. There is no question that a room or whole-house humidifier is the way to go if you can afford it.

 

[drurb]

I repectfully disagree with the above. Dampits are not "of no use." Granted. . . you have to wet them at more frequent intervals, but the moisture is released inside the bass before it exits through the F holes. Also, being "closed in a bag or case" is something I have never done. It surely could produce mold or mildew or even wood rot under the right (wrong!) circumstances.
By the way-- before there ever were such things as dampits, I used to use two small sponges tied on a piece of string which I dangled through the F holes.

Fine to disagree but I think the physics of humidity gradients backs me up. When a moist dampit or anything else for that matter is placed inside a bass, the free "communication" of the air in the room with the inside of the bass will make any increase in humidity miniscule and short-lived. That's because the moisture will follow the gradient right out of the bass to the dry air in the room. It won't stay inside the bass. A dampit inside the bass closed in a bag or case, creates a mini-environment that can actually be humidified by such a device. When traveling, I choose to use a damp sponge inside a zip-lock bag positioned so that the open side is up. I only put it inside the bag when the bass is lying on its side. When my bass is home, I humidify the room.

I don't think there is any real issue with mold, mildew, or rot given that very high levels of humidity over long periods of time would need to be achieved for those to occur. A dampit or sponge in a bag or case is not going to do that.

What will cause problems is water dripping into your bass. I've made my case about dampits here several times. I've done the experiments. You won't find one in my bass. To each his/her own.

 

[Russell Bergum]

Fine to disagree but I think the physics of humidity gradients backs me up.

It's great to talk about gradients, but unless you know the magnitude of the gradient, it's kinda meaningless.

I agree, you should not use dampits as your main source of humidification when at home.

I agree, you should use a room humidifier (I use 2 - the main unit is set at 45% and backup up unit is set at 40%) when the bass is at home, but if you plan to venture out during the winter, dampits work great while the bass is out of it's humidity controlled room.

 

[drurb]

It's great to talk about gradients, but unless you know the magnitude of the gradient, it's kinda meaningless.

No, it's not meaningless at all. If the bass is in a room that's dry, then the operation of a moisture gradient will not allow the humidity within the bass to rise above the level in the room. The air in the bass is contiguous with that in the room and the moisture will "seek its level" to equilibrium. In such a situation, one ends up using a dampit to moisturize the room and it's just not going to do anything significant.

Dampits can add moisture in a small closed environment as I posted earlier. They are also dangerous.

 

[Russell Bergum]

No, it's not meaningless at all. If the bass is in a room that's dry, then the operation of a moisture gradient will not allow the humidity within the bass to rise above the level in the room. The air in the bass is contiguous with that in the room and the moisture will "seek its level" to equilibrium. In such a situation, one ends up using a dampit to moisturize the room and it's just not going to do anything significant.

Dampits can add moisture in a small closed environment as I posted earlier. They are also dangerous.

The magnitude is important, as it affects how long it would take to reach steady state.

For example: If the RH is 20% outside, and 30% inside my house, and I plop a wet mop down in my dining room, the RH inside my dining room WILL go up, in spite of the fact there is a gradient present, and the fact that that my house is not perfectly sealed, and warm air can leak out past the edge of the door.

 

[drurb]

The magnitude is important, as it affects how long it would take to reach steady state.

For example: If the RH is 20% outside, and 30% inside my house, and I plop a wet mop down in my dining room, the RH inside my dining room WILL go up, in spite of the fact there is a gradient present, and the fact that that my house is not perfectly sealed, and warm air can leak out past the edge of the door.

Understood and agreed. I see what you mean. Actually, I was assuming, without having stated it clearly that the gradient is very steep and I am quite confident that that is correct. Now, think of the gradient with the bass open to the room. This would be like opening your front door and placing the wet mop right near that opening. The bass will never reach a level of RH substantially higher than what's in the room especially with a dampit. If you measured the RH inside your bass up at the top of the body using a dampit, I'd bet you a cookie that it would hardly, if at all, exceed the RH in the room.

 

[Ivan R]

I'm confused still about humidifiers. The only (relative) consensus seems to be that the dangle thing is bad, and that one should ideally have a room humidifier. I'm ok with that.

But which room humidifier? A search in sites like Amazon and Bed, Bath and Beyond will result in dozens of options, from $30 to $300 plus. The options are countless (cool mist? Hot mist? Embedded hygrometer: yay or nay? Filters or no filters? Ultrasonic?).

By the way, I am in Alberta, Canada.

Thanks in advance!

 

[lrhbass]

I have found some decent ones that were reasonable at Sears

 

[drurb]

I'm confused still about humidifiers. The only (relative) consensus seems to be that the dangle thing is bad, and that one should ideally have a room humidifier. I'm ok with that.

But which room humidifier? A search in sites like Amazon and Bed, Bath and Beyond will result in dozens of options, from $30 to $300 plus. The options are countless (cool mist? Hot mist? Embedded hygrometer: yay or nay? Filters or no filters? Ultrasonic?).

By the way, I am in Alberta, Canada.

Thanks in advance!

No mist at all. The best is an evaporative humidifier. Forget the embedded humidistat or hygrometer. The differential swing on the cheap humidistats makes them virtually useless. See this thread and this one.