Bass is 'easy'

[Venom of God]

I googled "ITB meaning" and now I'm really confused?

I didn't read the whole thread, but ITB is an audio engineering term for In The Box. It means they aren't using any outboard gear. Not sure how that's relevant to not needing a bass guitar, but I'm sure he has his reasons (even if that's just it being a for fun home project that he wants to play everything on).

 

[CatSquare]

I hope I never sound so clean as to be easily replicated by a computer. I like the rough edges, the slides and slurred notes, some parts hitting harder because they're played with passion. I respect session musicians that can just kill it with perfect time and even tone on the first take, but imperfection interests me far more.

 

[ToadWarrior]

Beyond some basic ability any instrument is as easy or as hard as you make it, in general I find it alot easier to play a hack job of a guitar track and still sound decent than it is to make a bassline that actually fits the song.

 

[bass12]

That's just not true; a lot of the biggest records recently (Bruno Mars, D'Angelo, Kendrick Lamar, Meghan Trainor, Paramore, Muse, Foo Fighters, Imagine Dragons, every single major label country artist, etc.) have all had real bass on them.

I'm not talking about rock and country, I'm talking about the kind of pop that you hear on Virgin radio. Even bands with competent bass players in them (No Doubt and Maroon 5 come to mind) are producing radio fodder with either no real bass or bass that is so processed that it's difficult to separate from some of what the keyboards are doing.

 

[bass12]

There's nothing wrong with tracking and mixing 100% in the box, but if he's using software instruments for absolutely everything but voice he produces demos, not professional mixes.

That would depend entirely on the style of music being produced. Plenty of non-demo records are made purely with "software instruments".

 

[Robus]

Reading the OP, I think the poster might have misunderstood what Vlad was saying. He said he worked ITB and only collaborated with vocalist. I take that to mean he uses samples, and that bass is easy to "mock up" or replace with samples. I didn't read him to be talking about technique. He's right. Bass is easy to emulate with samples or synthesizers.

 

[MDBass]

That would depend entirely on the style of music being produced. Plenty of non-demo records are made purely with "software instruments".

That doesn't mean they sounded any good.

If you're using MIDI strings or piano for a track because it's easier, not because you like the vibe more, you're doing it wrong.

 

[bass12]

That doesn't mean they sounded any good.

If you're using MIDI strings or piano for a track because it's easy, not because you like the vibe, you're doing it wrong.

It doesn't mean they don't sound any good either. Just to be clear, are you including drum machines and synthesizers when you say "software instruments"? What about samplers?

 

[MDBass]

I'm not talking about rock and country, I'm talking about the kind of pop that you hear on Virgin radio. Even bands with competent bass players in them (No Doubt and Maroon 5 come to mind) are producing radio fodder with either no real bass or bass that is so processed that it's difficult to separate from some of what the keyboards are doing.

You said Top 40; those are all Top 40 artists.

I had no idea No Doubt was still making music, but in their heyday they had some killer bass parts and synth bass would have absolutely ruined the raw vibe the band had.

Shoot, even Songs for Jane was a great record with some great bass work; they should really go back to writing for all of their albums as much as they did for that one, they'd probably have some good tracks on them again

 

[bass12]

You said Top 40; those are all Top 40 artists.

I had no idea No Doubt was still making music, but in their heyday they had some killer bass parts and synth bass would have absolutely ruined the raw vibe the band had.

Shoot, even Songs for Jane was a great record with some great bass work; they should really go back to writing for all of their albums as much as they did for that one, they'd probably have some good tracks on them again

I said "top 40 pop" but, admittedly, that could mean different things to different people. I should have been clearer.

 

[MDBass]

It doesn't mean they don't sound any good either. Just to be clear, are you including drum machines and synthesizers when you say "software instruments"? What about samplers?

All instruments (acoustic, electric and software) are tools that serve a purpose, and there are things you can do with synths and programming that are literally impossible with more traditional instruments, but in a professional setting you never choose your tool based on convenience alone.

The guy quoted in the OP is attempting to come off as an authority figure, even mentioning his workflow choice by it's acronym, but if he's suggesting that he never needs real bass because he can always "fake it" ITB, he's making a lazy choice based on convenience instead of an educated choice based on what's best for that particular song and client.

Which also means he's in the business of making demos, not professional records, and doesn't really have clients.

 

[MDBass]

I said "top 40 pop" but, admittedly, that could mean different things to different people. I should have been clearer.

I gotcha, "popular music" v "pop music"...though to be fair, most modern country is really just pop/arena rock with forced accents and slide guitars...it's pretty hysterical how good some of those players are when you listen to what they're actually singing about, Brad Paisley has a love song about checking a woman for infectious parasites that also features some of the cleanest, most burning hybrid picking licks ever recorded

 

[bass12]

You're not understanding the point I'm making; all instruments (acoustic, electric and software) are tools that serve a purpose, and there are things you can do with synths and programming that are literally impossible with more traditional instruments, but in a professional setting you never choose your tool based on convenience alone.

The guy quoted in the OP is attempting to come off as an authority figure, even mentioning his workflow choice by it's acronym, but if he's suggesting that he never needs real bass because he can always "fake it" ITB, he's making a lazy choice based on convenience instead of an educated choice based on what's best for that particular song and client.

Which also means he's in the business of making demos, not professional records, and doesn't really have clients.

Never? It happens all the time! How many orchestras get hired to make pop records these days? How many samples of orchestral sounds, on the other hand, get used simply because it's more convenient (i.e., it fits the budget)? Music for film and television used to be made exclusively by live musicians. How many film scores and television soundtracks are now made by one guy sitting behind a desk? A lot - and it's often not because that guy wouldn't rather be able to employ real players, it's because he doesn't have the means to.

 

[chungweishan]

This whole thread is a misunderstanding backed by assumptions, speculation, and projecting.

While I commend the OP for offering his skillset, simply the guy just didn't need or want OP's bass playing services at this time. It happens.

The thing is, Vlad, also made concessions about using mocked up bass "unless 'starlike' quality and gear, or either complex funky genre is concerned." Obviously, he's not against live-instrumentation as he advised the OP to try other instruments. It's just a cost vs. convenience vs. final goal. And honestly, I don't think anyone knows Vlad's goal other than he works with Vocalists.

 

[MDBass]

Never? It happens all the time! How many orchestras get hired to make pop records these days? How many samples of orchestral sounds, on the other hand, get used simply because it's more convenient (i.e., it fits the budget)? Music for film and television used to be made exclusively by live musicians. How many film scores and television soundtracks are now made by one guy sitting behind a desk? A lot - and it's often not because that guy wouldn't rather be able to employ real players, it's because he doesn't have the means to.

No one usually hires a full orchestra these days, it's almost always one person doing single takes of each instrument panned in a stereo bus, but just because you're "one guy working behind a desk" doesn't mean you're forced to use a sample of anything if a live player sounds better.

I can tell you from experience that most major labels still use real musician's for just about everything, and more small operations have the means to hire and record professional players now than ever before.

Film and TV scoring doesn't really apply here; it's a different business with an entirely different workflow and time constraints, and the music itself of only a part of the product instead of the ENTIRE product.

 

[Ballin'bass]

Everyone who post pictures of themselves as avatars is using one that is at least 20 years younger than actual age.
I went for -47years with my first av...View attachment 764090
Or they use a picture of someone better looking...View attachment 764091
Wait! What? Oh! You mean response to the nimrod post about bass being easy. Boorish clod.

My avatar is current

 

[okcrum]

No one usually hires a full orchestra these days, it's almost always one person doing single takes of each instrument panned in a stereo bus, but just because you're "one guy working behind a desk" doesn't mean you're forced to use a sample of anything if a live player sounds better.

I can tell you from experience that most major labels still use real musician's for just about everything, and more small operations have the means to hire and record professional players now than ever before.

Film and TV scoring doesn't really apply here; it's a different business with an entirely different workflow and time constraints, and the music itself of only a part of the product instead of the ENTIRE product.

Amen. I work in an acoustic trio with a TV/film arranger from LA. We decided to do a little intro, and she whipped up 3 TV themes in 1:11 with four time changes and three key changes.

Those people just think differently.

 

[JimmyM]

All instruments (acoustic, electric and software) are tools that serve a purpose, and there are things you can do with synths and programming that are literally impossible with more traditional instruments, but in a professional setting you never choose your tool based on convenience alone.

That is correct. I also base it around money and the amount of room I have.

 

[obimark]

I think it all depends on what you are going for. Could you easily produce a Taylor Swift hit song without live bass? Sure. Could you do a heavy rock song without it? I doubt it, unless you were deliberately trying to sound synthy.
Either way, I wouldn't pin my dreams on being a full-time professional session (or band) bassist (or any other instrument), you'd be wise to have several back up plans.
The music industry has changed, and probably will never change back to the glory days of the 70s and 80s and even 90s.

Read the stories about well-known metal musicians only making $50K a year or less while touring to thousands of fans. (and yes that includes there merch sales)

 

[t-ray]

"Playing any musical instrument is easy. All you have to do is hit the right key, at the right time and the instrument will play itself". J. S. Bach