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Bass isn't cutting through in studio - Tone issue?

M

Millhouse89

May 28, 2013
3
0
#1
Hey,

First off I'm playing in a three piece indie band. I'm playing some more lead oriented parts so I really need some clarity in my playing. Often when we rehearse in a small studio room a lot my my sound is lost in the mix!

It doesn't seem to be a volume issue so much because in parts of songs my tone seems appropriate. I'll be honest, the guitarist plays loudly because he seems to think his tone isn't there until he has some volume, which I get...

Gear: Fender Jazz, Hartke LH1000 (@4ohms only) through a hydrive 4X10 cab.

But I still don't understand why I'm playing at 6/10 volume yet can't hear myself in parts. Its especially a problem when the guitarist is playing busier riffs, when I'm playing busy low notes and when I am slapping. In one particular song my tone is fine until I am slapping in the chorus *tone cuts out entirely*

I haven't got a huge amount of experience in live playing situations so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Luke
 
#3
Thanks for the tip. Shame my amp only has 3 band EQ (bass, mid, treble). I thoughy it would be nice and simple going with the LH1000 because most other amp EQs confused me entirely. Is there anuthing I can do at all with what I have? Lol

I did try turning up mids and treble most of the way with the bass dialed back a bit, no such luck. I'm alwayd at the dials
 
#7
Apart from telling the guitarist to turn down, try the following:

- experiment with your EQ (already covered above)
- experiment with the guitarist & yourself finding a sweet spot with both your EQing
- try different placement of amplification within the room (this includes you standing on the other side of the room as your amplifier and/or tilting the speakers back so they're aimed at your head)
- consider a boost or eq pedal for the slap parts

Good luck Millhouse89!
 
#9
Haha yeah a second 4x10 is the first thing I'll buy when I'm touring the country/gigging and earning! What I have should DEFINITELY be doing the job though

The guitarist has suggested me turning up, but I don't feel like I should have to play at full noise with such a set up lol

I guess that's why I play a Jazz because while I like the sound of a humbucker bass in my room, I was convinced the Jazz bass would have have the mid range and clarity to cut through in a band.. Same as my rig, not as round and warm as an ampeg for instance.

I'll look at working out EQ for both guitar and bass, every live situation is a bit different I take it.

But yes, it probably has a lot to do with the guitar being too loud for the small space we're in, can create a muddy sound in parts which I could be playing almost anything and no one would know otherwise. I assume that in a bigger room the bass will travel further?

Thanks for helping out
 
#10
The guy who said "low-mids = mud" is wrong. Some bass frequencies (i.e. under ~200hz) can be really boomy and indistinct, only being audible on certain notes. Multi-band compressors can fix this by isolating that area of the frequency spectrum and keeping it under control, but you shouldn't rely on them. Always use a compressor of some sort when recording bass because it just helps to get a more even, usable tone, but your tone and place in the mix shouldn't depend on it or else you'll have problems elsewhere.

Instead, trying turning your bass frequencies down a bit and instead boost low-mids. Low-mids are a lot quicker to response to your attack, and tend to cut through the mix more than "bass" frequencies because they'll be more distinct. What I mean by that is, your bass frequencies will tend to sound a lot like the bass frequencies of the kick drum, and even the electric guitars if they're using quite a lot of distorition, so turning them up can cause a lot of "confusion" in that area of the spectrum, depending on who's doing what.

As mentioned, try turning your high-mids up to get the "character" of your bass and your playing style cutting through. Unlike the low-mids though, the area of the higher mid-range that your basses characteristic tone lies in can vary, depending on your instrument mainly. So you might have to use a parametric EQ and sweep your way through the higher mid-range to find the frequencies that "jump out" at you, and boost those. They should then be audible regardless of what else is going on in the mix, unless they REALLY bury you in there.
 
#13
Well, I think everyone (except onosson) missed the BIGGEST reason why the OP is not cutting through.

What are the dials on the LH1000 head set at right now? The flat setting is Mid at 10, Bass and Treble at 1.5. That will get some midrange in your tone. The tone circuit on that amp is based on the Fender Bassman tone stack. Increasing the bass and treble knobs will decrease the amount of midrange (at certain frequencies). Turning the knobs at 5 each results in a heavily scooped tone which will get lost in many mixes.

On your Fender Jazz, turn both pickups full on, then dial back the neck pickup, keep playing, and then stop moving the knob when you hear a definite tone change. At this point, your neck pickup and bridge pickup will be closer to the same volume and there will be plenty of midrange in your tone once again.

Try those two things and report back.
 
#15
Gearhead17 said:
Well, I think everyone (except onosson) missed the BIGGEST reason why the OP is not cutting through.

What are the dials on the LH1000 head set at right now? The flat setting is Mid at 10, Bass and Treble at 1.5. That will get some midrange in your tone. The tone circuit on that amp is based on the Fender Bassman tone stack. Increasing the bass and treble knobs will decrease the amount of midrange (at certain frequencies). Turning the knobs at 5 each results in a heavily scooped tone which will get lost in many mixes.

On your Fender Jazz, turn both pickups full on, then dial back the neck pickup, keep playing, and then stop moving the knob when you hear a definite tone change. At this point, your neck pickup and bridge pickup will be closer to the same volume and there will be plenty of midrange in your tone once again.

Try those two things and report back.
Click to expand...


Best answer in my opinion!

Is this why a jazz bass may sound muddy with 2 pickup volume full on?
 
#16
Is this why a jazz bass may sound muddy with 2 pickup volume full on?[/QUOTE]

Yes. It results in a midrange scooped Jazz tone that MANY people claim does not exist. While this sound is perfectly usable, it is usually better to combine the pickups so that a good amount of note definition/midrange comes through. It all depends on what you are trying to record and the band's overall sound.
 
#17
Millhouse89 said:
Hey,

First off I'm playing in a three piece indie band. I'm playing some more lead oriented parts so I really need some clarity in my playing. Often when we rehearse in a small studio room a lot my my sound is lost in the mix!

It doesn't seem to be a volume issue so much because in parts of songs my tone seems appropriate. I'll be honest, the guitarist plays loudly because he seems to think his tone isn't there until he has some volume, which I get...

Gear: Fender Jazz, Hartke LH1000 (@4ohms only) through a hydrive 4X10 cab.

But I still don't understand why I'm playing at 6/10 volume yet can't hear myself in parts. Its especially a problem when the guitarist is playing busier riffs, when I'm playing busy low notes and when I am slapping. In one particular song my tone is fine until I am slapping in the chorus *tone cuts out entirely*

I haven't got a huge amount of experience in live playing situations so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Luke
Click to expand...

Does the guitarist use a tube amp? If it is SS volume is not proportional to tone. If it is tube, tell him to get an attenuator so he can retain his tone at low volumes.

Or tell him to turn down, you don't come to practice to listen to him play.

How scooped are your mids? I imagine you scooped them right out for a good slapping tone but that tone does you no good in the mix.
 
#18
Gearhead17 said:
Is this why a jazz bass may sound muddy with 2 pickup volume full on?
Click to expand...

Yes. It results in a midrange scooped Jazz tone that MANY people claim does not exist. While this sound is perfectly usable, it is usually better to combine the pickups so that a good amount of note definition/midrange comes through. It all depends on what you are trying to record and the band's overall sound.
Click to expand...

It's perfect science that it exists. The effect might be lessened by output differences between the two pickups, but it's still there, nonetheless.
 
#19
Salamenster said:
It's perfect science that it exists. The effect might be lessened by output differences between the two pickups, but it's still there, nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I remember a thread on TB about mid-scooped Jazz basses; many people thought the OP was nuts and completely out of line. "How can it be mid-scooped? It has so much midrange!". Someone finally did mention the pickup settings, but it was a bit annoying to read up until that point.
 
#20
Maybe I missed it, but are you playing fingerstyle or with a pick?

For maximum attack / "cut" you would want to be playing with a pick, and back by the bridge pickup. That's not personally a sound I go for but in your situation it sounds like it could be what you want/need.
 

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