Bass lessons for beginners - by a beginner.

[Zegie]

Some interesting takes and thank you for all your concern about my feelings but no offence taken or intended.

The important thing in IMHO is to discuss attempts and methods. I just thought it might be useful for other beginners to see how I approached things.

I still stick firmly to my original point. Many many teachers with qualifications as long as your arm and years of tuition under their belt, have completely forgotten just what it is like to pick up an instrument for the first time and the difficulty simple things and concepts often present to the newbie.

What IMHO is the most difficult thing for (some/most?) educators (in any subject – not just bass) to grasp is:

1. What the beginner wants to accomplish.
2. How he/she feels about putting in the hours. The ‘learn bass painlessly and easily and simply’ advocates are unhelpful at best and misleading at worst.
3. The student’s expectations and an honest answer to just how realistic they are.
4. The student’s keenness, dedication and staying power.
5. Just how quickly beginners’ requirements change and develop.

And critically -

6. What it feels like to be a struggling beginner.

An example:

A few weeks ago I was struggling with a Jamerson riff. I tried and tried to get to grips with it. More than once I felt so frustrated and incapable that I (almost) resolved to drop it. But I persevered. Now less than a month later I cannot see what the problem was – you see even I, the student, have already forgotten just how difficult 'the student' found it.

Z.

 

[toniwonkanobi]

Does the teacher smoke, I mean just KILL it?

Does the teacher do things with music that you can only dream of doing?

YES, you say?

Then why in the world would you even SUGGEST that they modify what has been demonstrated to work, to suit your ego or emotions?

I had 6 years of forced classical piano instruction. She would straight up call me out for playing badly - she KNEW when I did and did not put in the time.

She also kicked so much a** on the piano that it was SICK.

So the choice is yours.

You wanna get good, real good?

Then respectfully STFU and follow the lead.

That's how it works.

Thank you for your thrilling vote for "that's just the way it is." Contrary to what you might think, my ego doesn't need massaging. Just because they have been teaching that way for years doesn't mean it is the best way of teaching. I'm not asking to be coddled, i'm just asking to drop the 'tude. There is a big difference.

And by sound of it, your 8th grade level sarcasm must be at an all time high for you to use the words "respectfully" and "STFU" in a sentence together. Great stuff man. Resulting to AOL instant messenger acronyms of the '90's -- nice.

Say, what graduate school did you go to? Maybe I could go there and pick up an attitude similar to your own, since it seems to be a prerequisite to posting on these forums. [Or maybe you didn't go to graduate school??]

 

[wade_b]

Thank you for your thrilling vote for "that's just the way it is." Contrary to what you might think, my ego doesn't need massaging. Just because they have been teaching that way for years doesn't mean it is the best way of teaching. I'm not asking to be coddled, i'm just asking to drop the 'tude. There is a big difference.

And by sound of it, your 8th grade level sarcasm must be at an all time high for you to use the words "respectfully" and "STFU" in a sentence together. Great stuff man. Resulting to AOL instant messenger acronyms of the '90's -- nice.

Say, what graduate school did you go to? Maybe I could go there and pick up an attitude similar to your own, since it seems to be a prerequisite to posting on these forums. [Or maybe you didn't go to graduate school??]

Go pick a fight with someone else, please.

There are people here that want to talk about music and instruction: in case you missed it, that's what this forum is about and you've contributed nothing.

It sounds like you've got it all figured out - the "better" way to teach music.

So I guess you should start by having some amazing skills or facility, otherwise, why would anyone want to learn from you?

 

[wade_b]

Some interesting takes and thank you for all your concern about my feelings but no offence taken or intended.

The important thing in IMHO is to discuss attempts and methods. I just thought it might be useful for other beginners to see how I approached things.

I don't disagree with any of that.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

But keep in mind that most dedicated students choose a teacher because that teacher can do things with music that the student can't.

Eg:

Soloing over changes
Command of harmony
Excellent tone, touch and taste
Ability to transpose any song to any key, on the fly
Ability to reharmonize
Ability to play polyrhythms

And so on.

 

[toniwonkanobi]

Go pick a fight with someone else, please.

There are people here that want to talk about music and instruction: in case you missed it, that's what this forum is about and you've contributed nothing.

It sounds like you've got it all figured out - the "better" way to teach music.

So I guess you should start by having some amazing skills or facility, otherwise, why would anyone want to learn from you?

Who resulted to four-letter acronyms, hmm? I don't know about you, but that seems to be the epitome of "[contributing] nothing," as you so eloquently put it. Too many big words? My bad. Eruhm... how about this 'You were mean to me first meanie-head' That's easier for you to understand, yes?

And no, i obviously haven't "figured out [...] the 'better' way to teach music." I simply suggest maybe teachers could drop the 'tude (or, at least all the 'teachers' here on TB).

 

[Jim Campbell]

Some interesting takes and thank you for all your concern about my feelings but no offence taken or intended.

The important thing in IMHO is to discuss attempts and methods. I just thought it might be useful for other beginners to see how I approached things.

I still stick firmly to my original point. Many many teachers with qualifications as long as your arm and years of tuition under their belt, have completely forgotten just what it is like to pick up an instrument for the first time and the difficulty simple things and concepts often present to the newbie.

What IMHO is the most difficult thing for (some/most?) educators (in any subject – not just bass) to grasp is:

1. What the beginner wants to accomplish.
2. How he/she feels about putting in the hours. The ‘learn bass painlessly and easily and simply’ advocates are unhelpful at best and misleading at worst.
3. The student’s expectations and an honest answer to just how realistic they are.
4. The student’s keenness, dedication and staying power.
5. Just how quickly beginners’ requirements change and develop.

And critically -

6. What it feels like to be a struggling beginner.

An example:

A few weeks ago I was struggling with a Jamerson riff. I tried and tried to get to grips with it. More than once I felt so frustrated and incapable that I (almost) resolved to drop it. But I persevered. Now less than a month later I cannot see what the problem was – you see even I, the student, have already forgotten just how difficult 'the student' found it.

Z.

i think you miss the point of music education....the biggest mistake a beginning student can make is to try to drive the lesson bus.... the way to get there is not for the beginner to devise his own lesson plan....learning music is not accomplished in weeks or months....its a journey not a destination....

ultimately it's up to you.....if you think that as a complete beginner your methods are as valuable as the stuff guys here have told you,go for it......

 

[need4mospd]

I still stick firmly to my original point. Many many teachers with qualifications as long as your arm and years of tuition under their belt, have completely forgotten just what it is like to pick up an instrument for the first time and the difficulty simple things and concepts often present to the newbie.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Teachers are the BEST at identifying what a beginner is struggling with. I'm not talking about the average guitar shop bass lessons, those guys just want to take your money and show you some cool licks. REAL teachers are CONSTANTLY teaching to people that are far under their ability. There's a constant barrage of new students with different abilities that they have to identify and teach to. You can certainly learn from a beginner and even teach yourself, but a good teacher would truly take your playing to another level.

What IMHO is the most difficult thing for (some/most?) educators (in any subject – not just bass) to grasp is:

1. What the beginner wants to accomplish.
2. How he/she feels about putting in the hours. The ‘learn bass painlessly and easily and simply’ advocates are unhelpful at best and misleading at worst.
3. The student’s expectations and an honest answer to just how realistic they are.
4. The student’s keenness, dedication and staying power.
5. Just how quickly beginners’ requirements change and develop.

And critically -

6. What it feels like to be a struggling beginner.

These are exactly the things a good teacher can identify. I really can't see how you think a qualified teacher wouldn't be able to see these things. I've been through a few teachers over the years and these are some of many of the topics that come up in conversation. How many teachers have you been to? And how long did you study with them?

An example:

A few weeks ago I was struggling with a Jamerson riff. I tried and tried to get to grips with it. More than once I felt so frustrated and incapable that I (almost) resolved to drop it. But I persevered. Now less than a month later I cannot see what the problem was – you see even I, the student, have already forgotten just how difficult 'the student' found it.

Z.

I too have had these struggles, and you'll continue having them your ENTIRE life. This is not something specific to a beginner, in fact, most of the things you've mentioned aren't either.

Do yourself a favor. Find a REAL bass teacher. Don't go to the guitar shop or a music store to find them either. Don't settle for a lesson because it's cheap, convenient, etc... Ask around, talk to the BIG music players in your town that are real veterans, ask who they'd recommend. I guarantee your misconceptions will change over a couple weeks.

I hope this helps. Your beginner's lesson is certainly a step in the right direction, and with a good teacher you should excel quickly.

 

[Zegie]

...if you think that as a complete beginner your methods are as valuable as the stuff guys here have told you,go for it......

Oh how I wish I had the cheek and temerity to consider my suggestions valuable – that is not for me to decide but for others to determine both in this discussion in particular and life in general.

In my OP I set out how I approached learning the bass. I also believed that the post might be of assistance to others who find them selves in a similar position. I don’t believe I ever inferred that there is one way or THE way.

What seems to be emerging from this thread is that within this sub forum there are members who hold very fixed and firm views on what is right (whatever that is) and what is wrong (whatever that is).

But no matter. I have no fears that the discriminating and selective readers might fail to identify those narrow minded diehards and what they represent – as I have done.

Anyone for a beer?

Z.

 

[wade_b]

Who resulted to four-letter acronyms, hmm? I don't know about you, but that seems to be the epitome of "[contributing] nothing," as you so eloquently put it. Too many big words? My bad. Eruhm... how about this 'You were mean to me first meanie-head' That's easier for you to understand, yes?

And no, i obviously haven't "figured out [...] the 'better' way to teach music." I simply suggest maybe teachers could drop the 'tude (or, at least all the 'teachers' here on TB).

How bout you p*ss off with YOUR attitude: you're clogging the pipes with your crap.

 

[Zegie]

How bout you p*ss off with YOUR attitude: you're clogging the pipes with your crap.

As the OP may I please ask that we do not allow this topic to disintegrate into squabbling and school playground bickering.

I appreciate that somehow I have inadvertently ruffled more that a few neatly preened feathers and trod on a few sore toes but I hope that we are all adult enough to let that pass.

After all we do have one thing in common - the love of the bass.

Rock on…

Z.

 

[Stranger Danger]

As long as 1 year players are giving out lessons I guess Ill add that in addition to weekly lessons and daily practice I really think jamming with GOOD musicians has been an immeasurable help to me. I learn as much or more from those times as I do from the lessons.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Oh how I wish I had the cheek and temerity to consider my suggestions valuable – that is not for me to decide but for others to determine both in this discussion in particular and life in general.

In my OP I set out how I approached learning the bass. I also believed that the post might be of assistance to others who find them selves in a similar position. I don’t believe I ever inferred that there is one way or THE way.

What seems to be emerging from this thread is that within this sub forum there are members who hold very fixed and firm views on what is right (whatever that is) and what is wrong (whatever that is).

But no matter. I have no fears that the discriminating and selective readers might fail to identify those narrow minded diehards and what they represent – as I have done.

Anyone for a beer?

Z.

wrong again.....there are those that have been there,done it,learned and excelled......i know it's fun to ask for advice and then dump on those that offer it up,at no charge i might add.....since none of it appears to dovetail with your finely crafted path of enlightenment....but a more mature attitude would be to recognize ones limitations and heed the advice you have sought......smart alec retorts will buy you nothing but a few laughs now and no progress musically

 

[Zegie]

wrong again.....there are those that have been there,done it,learned and excelled......i know it's fun to ask for advice and then dump on those that offer it up,at no charge i might add.....since none of it appears to dovetail with your finely crafted path of enlightenment....but a more mature attitude would be to recognize ones limitations and heed the advice you have sought......smart alec retorts will buy you nothing but a few laughs now and no progress musically

Absolutely sure about that beer? I'm buying!

Z.

 

[rarbass]

What became of this thread? btw it's "resorted to" not "resulted to"

But seriously, why such a harsh tone in this thread? I think the initial intentions were good but I'm no expert so I won't say whether it was good or incomplete advice.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

What seems to be emerging from this thread is that within this sub forum there are members who hold very fixed and firm views on what is right (whatever that is) and what is wrong (whatever that is).

.

Well - the thing is that people have been doing musical education for centuries - there is nothing new you can add and beginners are more likely to pick up bad habits, that have been indentified as best avoided, over many years by those how have decades of experience rather than days and months...

If you give bad advice - then you could set people back many years in their musical journey and as a beginner, have no idea that this is what you are doing!

I have been playing bass over 30 years and I wish I had a resource like TB when I started, as I would have progressed so much more quickly if I had access to experienced player's advice - I could have saved dozens of years of bad habits and brick walls...

If you have the choice of advice from a load of great players, it just seems "perverse" to ignore it, in favour of "the blind leading the blind"...

 

[Zegie]

If you give bad advice - then you could set people back many years in their musical journey and as a beginner, have no idea that this is what you are doing!

Would you please be kind enough to enlighten me as to what particular bad advice is contained in my OP that would "set back people many years".

Not arguing - just curious.

Z.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Would you please be kind enough to enlighten me as to what particular bad advice is contained in my OP that would "set back people many years".

Not arguing - just curious.

Z.

Well - the main thing is giving the impression that you do not need a teacher!

I know lots of people who picked up bad habits which an hour with a good teacher looking at their playing, would have cleared up very quickly - but as it was, took many months of hard work to clear up...

I played for over 10 years in ignorance of things which could have massively improved my playing ...

 

[WhiteKnuckles]

Would you please be kind enough to enlighten me as to what particular bad advice is contained in my OP that would "set back people many years".

Not arguing - just curious.

Z.

I think 'many years' is stretching it just a bit...

Personally, the only thing I say is to get rid of trying to learn from a single root...'C' in this case. Learn how a major scale is constructed and and not what notes would be contained in it. Same with all scales.

Learn the relation of the notes to each other...IE, what is a third, what is a fifth, etc...as well as where they are. (If you are playing a C major...where are all the nearby 3rds? 5ths?)

Other than that, don't limit yourself to learning just a section of the fretboard...learn all of it.

Do those three things and you have a super solid foundation to build on.

 

[Stranger Danger]

There's an old saying: "To succeed in life, you need two things: ignorance and confidence."

I think its clear Zegie, that you will be a very successful bass player.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Would you please be kind enough to enlighten me as to what particular bad advice is contained in my OP that would "set back people many years".

Not arguing - just curious.

Z.

it's not bad advice in your op,it's the potential for learning things wrong built into the premise of it.....the notion that a beginner should be teaching is wrong......there is a difference between showing someone something you have learned and teaching.....try getting fourth graders to teach third grade.....after all what its like to be in third grade is fresh in the mind as opposed to a teacher who has forgotten what it's like