Dunno about you guys, but when I'm trying to learn about something, I generally ask somebody who knows their stuff rather than someone whose knowledge is just as limited as mine is. YMMV.
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Bass lessons for beginners - by a beginner.
- Thread starter Zegie
- Start date
Yea and I learnt not to put my hands in a fire by a guy who had burnt his hands off....
... and I would never had learnt to talk if I hadn't had lessons by a professor of linguistics.
Oh and ....
....I glad William Shakespeare gave me lessons otherwise I'd never would have got the hang of this writing lark.
Z.
Your argument is invalid. You have a choice between teachers. To continue the analogy: given the choice between a 'regular' person and Shakespeare, who you prefer to teach you writing?
Who taught you how to write? Was it one of your school mates who learned to write a few months before?
Geez, really no need to jump on Z's case guys. I understand you've been teaching music for 'centuries', but a fresh perspective never hurt anybody. Even you bass sensei types could stand to learn a new thing or two and definitely drop the "there is nothing new to learn about teaching" attitude.
Hey, no intention to "jump on his case" here. I'm just interested in the views about learning expressed in this thread. Sorry if my flippancy gave a different impression.
For example... "I would never had learnt to talk if I hadn't had lessons by a professor of linguistics." This example actually proves the point that it attempts to argue against. Most folks learn to speak from their parents, who are, compared to an infant, masters of their language. Kids don't learn to speak by sitting in their cot and making coo coo coo noises at another baby. This seems to make the case for the need for a knowledgeable teacher quite well.
I have no issues with beginners comparing progress, of course. It's a valuable thing to do. But there are two issues I would pick up on in this thread - first, the idea that peer support between beginners has the status of "lessons" (as mentioned by Setebos above) and secondly, as I pointed out before, the mistaken belief that an advanced player can't empathise with the difficulties of a learner. Both of these assumptions undermine the value of good teaching and are conceptually flawed.
I'm also just trying to share my own experiences and help people get where they want to be, musically speaking. Anyway, what do I know? I'm just a hack anyway.
Er... might that just be the point of the o.p?
The words 'round' and 'circle' spring to mind.
Z.
Thanks. Would you care to answer my question?
Edit: note that my question was my first post in this thread, and I have not in any way criticized your original post, so I would prefer that you spare me the flippant responses. Your Shakespeare analogy appears to cut against your own argument, as I presume that you were not taught to write by your peers who were at roughly the same level as you, but by an experienced teacher.
Er... yeah. Right.
To echo Febs - woud you care to address the points I made about your OP not having the status of "lessons" from an experienced teacher, and also your mistaken assumption that being a competent player means that you lose the ability to empathise with learners? Or the fact that your examples about speaking and writing in English actually support what you're arguing against and have exactly the opposite implications to those you intended?
Seriously, if you think that the sort of simplified tips you're offering in this thread can help someone to progress in a way that negates the need to learn from somebody more knowledgeable, you're deluding yourself and possibly others. Hence the reactions from those who know this to be the case. If your teaching talents can show us where we're all mistaken, I'm all ears.
Seeing as you asked so politely, the majority of my time at school was spent looking at the work and copying that of the pupil sitting next to me.
I was also encouraged to listen to and interrelate with other students.
That is when I wasn't looking out of the window.
Hope that helps.
Z.
Zegie, I found this post that you wrote last December interesting, as it shows that (contrary to the position you've taken in this thread), you acknowledge the value of an experienced teacher:
Please remind me where I said this - and if I did, I apologise and admit pubically that I was totally wrong.
Z.
There seems to be a big misunderstanding. My respect for good experienced teachers (of anything) is profound and deep.
Here's one that has the qualities I admire:
Link Removed
My position as you put it, has never been critical of good experienced teachers.
What I think happened is that some readers assumed (assumption the mother of all f*** ups) that I was critical and that that was my position.
Well it's not.
Z.
You didn't say that, so no apology necessary at all. It's what I kind of inferred from post #62. But thanks for the clarifications.
Well this has been an interesting read. Well not really...
As a student you should compare notes, share experiences with, and support your peers. But to presume the role of "teacher" is not where to be. That's really it... there's a long list of reasons for this, and they're all valid.
Listen to each others experiences with a discerning ear- and don't get in each others way- because you should be taking your learning seriously. Yep, music is for enjoyment, but your learning anything at all is quality time- you're wiring your head with information! Learning something... you really need to take that seriously. And when someone gives you advice, and the delivery has a little rough edge to it, so what? Put the pride away- if your cup is full of something as useless as your own fragile, cumbersome ego then you can't fill your cup with something useful. You have just failed to receive something valuable to your experience.
A good deal of this thread at this point is superfluous bickering and a waste of valuable time. You should be learning a tune, shedding harmony, playing over the changes to "Solar", etc., rather than arguing semantics. I thought it was going to be edifying, but it's mostly not.
As a student you should compare notes, share experiences with, and support your peers. But to presume the role of "teacher" is not where to be. That's really it... there's a long list of reasons for this, and they're all valid.
Listen to each others experiences with a discerning ear- and don't get in each others way- because you should be taking your learning seriously. Yep, music is for enjoyment, but your learning anything at all is quality time- you're wiring your head with information! Learning something... you really need to take that seriously. And when someone gives you advice, and the delivery has a little rough edge to it, so what? Put the pride away- if your cup is full of something as useless as your own fragile, cumbersome ego then you can't fill your cup with something useful. You have just failed to receive something valuable to your experience.
A good deal of this thread at this point is superfluous bickering and a waste of valuable time. You should be learning a tune, shedding harmony, playing over the changes to "Solar", etc., rather than arguing semantics. I thought it was going to be edifying, but it's mostly not.
What people legally and decently do with their own time is a matter for themselves whatever others may think. By the same token what people choose to post or read on this forum is their own business (whilst respecting the 11 talkbass forum rules).
Millions have died fighting for the fragile principle of freedom of expression and people are still dying everyday to uphold and honour this principle so, with respect, CB, by telling people what they should and shouldnt do, you are treading on very thin ice.
Of course you are entitled to your own opinion if you think this post is superfluous bickering and a waste of valuable time then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I cant (and wont) speak for other contributors to this post, but please dont tell me how to value my time, what I should do with it, and what I should be taking seriously.
It seems you have a different philosophy, but I for one am nowhere near ready to live in a dictatorship or be dictated to.
Peace and love.
Z.
Amazing. Your profound respect for the fragile principle of freedom of expression lasted exactly two sentences.
