Bass manufacturer ethics?

[omnimutant]

If you ran your business the way our banks, insurance companies or governments ran theirs

If you ran your business like that you would be rolling in personal profits and never held personally accountable for anything, even though your paper work would show huge losses, and the corruption would stink to high heaven. LOL

As far as ethics go, your probably better off just not knowing, and not judging the product by it's history. Just Judge it based on the quality of what you can see and hold. Anything mass produced outside of America is going to have ethical problems because the rest of the world doesn't have insane rules and regulations, dictating every single aspect of production like we do, nor do they penalize the hell out of success.

 

[michael_atw]

You forgot the rest, Fender, Squier, Gibson, G&L Tribute, Ibanez, Lakeland, Alvarez, Carvin and Parkwood

Buy a USA, German or British bass and don't worry about it.

I got beaten out of an SX thread one day talking about their worker ethics. Americans don't want to hear about that. It's all about "me...me...and a little more me." "How does this cost cheaper for me? How does this give me extra money to waste this weekend?"

 

[michael_atw]

As far as ethics go, your probably better off just not knowing, and not judging the product by it's history. Just Judge it based on the quality of what you can see and hold. Anything mass produced outside of America is going to have ethical problems because the rest of the world doesn't have insane rules and regulations, dictating every single aspect of production like we do, nor do they penalize the hell out of success.

Yep...ignorance is bliss indeed. If we can whip those little Chinese kiddies into making a great product...why the hell not? That's all that matters.:scowl:

By 'penalize the hell out of success' you must mean taking all the rich man's money? I mean...America definitely doesn't have by far the most millionaires out of any country in the world. Nope...can't be. We're being held down so badly...I couldn't even drive my Suburban 90 mph down the interstate today without hitting a few construction workers. They're always getting in the way....government always trying to repair my roads. I was trying to get a sub downtown and there were some seniors walking slow out of the public senior housing project; boy, I wish the government would stop giving them money so that they can get out of my way and get buried already! I wish the government wasn't holding me down with speed limits and wage standards and public assistance and all these sick, twisted ideas that make this country so terrible...especially for the rich man. That's all that matters is how much money we can gather before we all return to dust, right? That's my goal. Give me everything cheaper. I just will make sure I look away.

Severely off topic, so rant over/

You know who REALLY dictated every aspect of production? Carnegie, Vanderbilt, the Waltons, Rockefeller....all those government shills who had to deal with all the insane regulations that took all their money and ordered them around. Oh wait...

 

[humpy thumb]

If company ethics are an issue,governing what you buy.Dont look into the clothing industry or you'll probably get around naked for the rest of your life

 

[humpy thumb]

I got beaten out of an SX thread one day talking about their worker ethics. Americans don't want to hear about that. It's all about "me...me...and a little more me." "How does this cost cheaper for me? How does this give me extra money to waste this weekend?"

Sadly,people seem to be really focused more on the money aspect of things these days & letting friendship take a back seat.Some people I know spend every waking minute focused on making more & more money.Striving to get closer to people they think will help them make money,& ignoring anyone else completely.

 

[WoodyG3]

I thought all of Carvin guitars was made in the United States...or has that changed...?

Carvin's acoustic guitars are made in Asia. Everything else they manufacture is made in San Diego, CA.

 

[omnimutant]

Yep...ignorance is bliss indeed. If we can whip those little Chinese kiddies into making a great product...why the hell not? That's all that matters

If you truly knew the "ethical" side to every product you've ever used or purchased, you might see what a lost cause it is. But if it makes you feel better to avoid a certain company because you heard it had unethical business practices, or whatever it is that you feel you need to do to shed off the guilt of being a human being, then by all means have at it. I just think it's a silly argument. We often pick and choose what it is we hold standards for and most times, it's extremely hypocritical at best.

 

[michael_atw]

If you truly knew the "ethical" side to every product you've ever used or purchased, you might see what a lost cause it is. But if it makes you feel better to avoid a certain company because you heard it had unethical business practices, or whatever it is that you feel you need to do to shed off the guilt of being a human being, then by all means have at it. I just think it's a silly argument. We often pick and choose what it is we hold standards for and most times, it's extremely hypocritical at best.

Nobody can shed hypocrisy completely. But they can strive to become less hypocritical. There is no such thing as a lost cause. If we weren't stuck in our ways, we'd solve problems. But we strive for willful ignorance...which is the most dangerous thing we can do. Irregardless of whether it's about basses or boxers or McDonalds toys. Willful ignorance makes us feel much better about ourselves. But life isn't about ourselves..it's about our Korean or Mexican or Swedish or Ugandan brother. It's a struggle to pay more for the knowledge that we are buying from an ethical instrument company in this country.

 

[Pilgrim]

Are there any companies the either have flawless or tarnished ethics?

Yes.

Next question.

(Since you have posted only two options and those include all possible cases, the only correct answer is yes. It is is important to phrase questions carefully if you want meaningful answers.)

 

[omnimutant]

Willful ignorance makes us feel much better about ourselves.

So does self gratifying imposition of what you feel is important, with the false belief that your existence is making the world a better place. /jab

 

[Xray66]

I got beaten out of an SX thread one day talking about their worker ethics. Americans don't want to hear about that. It's all about "me...me...and a little more me." "How does this cost cheaper for me? How does this give me extra money to waste this weekend?"

It's not just Americans... It's human nature in general. Nobody cares about anything until it affects them, or they THINK it will affect them. Guaranteed, if a bunch of guys blew up the Eiffel Tower... France would be wanting to turn the world upside down. But since it happened to somebody else... Not their problem.

 

[bobba66]

Maybe the older workers are ground up and fed to the next generation. Hows that for "sustainable"?

 

[Jaco D]

Maybe the older workers are ground up and fed to the next generation. Hows that for "sustainable"?

Didn't they make a movie about that in the early 70s called "Soylent Green" starring Charlton Heston?

 

[AmieLouHat]

Wishbass, meticulously crafted by free range toddlers.

(sorry to any devotees, I had to)

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Flawless =/= Tarnished

I couldn't comment on either case, though.

 

[michael_atw]

It's not just Americans... It's human nature in general. Nobody cares about anything until it affects them, or they THINK it will affect them. Guaranteed, if a bunch of guys blew up the Eiffel Tower... France would be wanting to turn the world upside down. But since it happened to somebody else... Not their problem.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. But America always takes everything to the next level. France would be pissed but they wouldn't go on an epic rampage like America always does when our interests are being compromised.

Ironically Americans do far more to compromise America than anyone else.

 

[michael_atw]

So does self gratifying imposition of what you feel is important, with the false belief that your existence is making the world a better place. /jab

Yep. Every little thing we do can have astounding impact. Even if it means handing a kid a dollar at the grocery store. People remember that crap. People get changed that way.

 

[ga_edwards]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. But America always takes everything to the next level. France would be pissed but they wouldn't go on an epic rampage like America always does when our interests are being compromised.

Ironically Americans do far more to compromise America than anyone else.

And ironically, most British don't think the American's understand irony!

Sadly though, whilst there's still a healthy good old fashioned British element that shrugs bad news off and gets on with life. There is an imported suing culture element in our younger generations that do like to rant about their rights, and will sue if they get hurt in anyway by finding blame elsewhere, even if they are clearly at fault. And don't get me started on Maccie D's!

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I think the better question is "At what point do small, caring, ethical builders become big corporate A-holes"... Which is, of course, an unanswerable question. Some big builders ARE good citizens - but many do things that some folks see as "ethically challenged", ala Fender/Cort... I've talked to folks who have worked for EBMM and they didn't have much good to say about management (what workers do?) - - Same with Carvin here in SD... But having grumpy worker bees is somewhat different than being slimy or exploitive.

Another thought: Some folks care about other factors in buying gear: How the company treats the environment as well as its employees (not to mention its customers). That's why I try to buy US or Euro as much as possible. I work at a company that sends a ton of work over the border just to dodges US environmental laws. Yeah, I'm not happy about it, but I have to pay the rent... But since I have a choice in where I buy my gear...

 

[Longshot]

One company you may want to keep in mind is US Masters.

Made in Wisconsin I must say the quality is up there with ranks of Fodera and the like. And great prices to boot.

I've known those guys since I was in 4th grade and I can personally vouch for their character. They really care about the musician and the value of their products.

usmasters.com