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Bass recording pre-amp

#41
Kinch said:
Hi, Dave (or anybody else who can help)

I was wondering if you could advice me on which preamp to choose. I looked at the BBE BMAX which seems to fit my needs. I am going to use it in the studio, recording soul and pop music, I would like to have the opportunity to add a little compressor, and then it would come in handy with one unit that combines a good preamp with a compressor(less cables and noise), it is for professionally use, if it is a stupid idea to have one unit with pre and comp let me know.
If any of you would recommend 1 pre amp (not necessarily with a compressor) for soul pop music what would it then be?,I am getting a little confused,and I am from Denmark, so it should be something there is available in Europe.

Is there any other preamp with comp that i´ve missed?

Thanks ahead

Mikkel
Click to expand...

Well, it seems to me that you'll have to find the one that YOU like the sound of; Since you're in Denmark, you might want to see what Tube-Tech has to offer in the line of a channel strip (I do love their CL-1B compressor). From there, I think that most of the major companies are available in Europe, and better for you, since the US dollar sucks so bad, you ought to be able to get a good deal. :)

Universal Audio makes something that might work, and so does Pendulum. But I would suggest that noise wouldn't be an issue if you decided to use a separate compressor and preamp. Buy a one foot cable (well, a third of a meter), and it's all good...
 
#42
Dave Martin said:
Well, it seems to me that you'll have to find the one that YOU like the sound of; Since you're in Denmark, you might want to see what Tube-Tech has to offer in the line of a channel strip (I do love their CL-1B compressor). From there, I think that most of the major companies are available in Europe, and better for you, since the US dollar sucks so bad, you ought to be able to get a good deal. :)
Click to expand...
+1
Universal Audio makes something that might work, and so does Pendulum. But I would suggest that noise wouldn't be an issue if you decided to use a separate compressor and preamp. Buy a one foot cable (well, a third of a meter), and it's all good...
Click to expand...
And depending on the ins and outs of the preamp and compressor you could also run entirely balanced (XLR) after the preamp. That would be even better and you wouldn't be limited by cable length.
 
#43
Dave Martin said:
I own a REDDI and prefer it on the Wurly (while the Evil Twin or the Millennia are more often used on a bass) because it doesn't have enough gain in the output stage to go direct to the DAW without the need for a preamp in addition to the REDDI.
Click to expand...

I usually carry a JDI everywhere I go--in my studio I usually run the JDI into a Summit mic pre, then just a smidge of Summit tube limiter. Sounds very nice. But I have encountered a couple set-ups at other project studios where the guy wanted to track me straight into his ProTools rig with no mic pre in line, and kept complaining about the level not being hot enough(and that's even with my active Sadowsky cranked up). So, I used my Xotic Tri-Logic outboard pre to boost things as it's very transparent--really quite a nice unit. But 99% of the time, the places I track have better gear than me, and I'm usually running through a Neve or what-have-you. But this guy's rig was weird. I would have been clipping the heck out of anything else I can think of, but his PT HD front end just wasn't getting what I was sending. Makes me wonder what it was doing to the sound too . . .
Anyhow, long story longer, I have a REDDI on the way--I wanted one as the JDI was my only DI, and I wanted an active DI with a different flavor as an option.
But I'm surprised to hear it doesn't provide enough gain to go direct to a DAW(?). I guess when I encounter another situation like the above, I can still use the Xotic in a pinch to get the level up, with the REDDI being there for tube character.
 
#44
pbass2 said:
But I'm surprised to hear it doesn't provide enough gain to go direct to a DAW(?). I guess when I encounter another situation like the above, I can still use the Xotic in a pinch to get the level up, with the REDDI being there for tube character.
Click to expand...

It may work fine for you - the REDDI is a good DI. But since I typically run into a Tube Tech CL-1B on my way to the DAW, I want enough clean gain to get one or two dB of gain reduction with the threshold of the CL1B set at 0. At least the last time I tried it, the REDDI didn't quite allow me to do that.
 
#45
pbass2 said:
But I have encountered a couple set-ups at other project studios where the guy wanted to track me straight into his ProTools rig with no mic pre in line, and kept complaining about the level not being hot enough(and that's even with my active Sadowsky cranked up).
Click to expand...

The JDI output is mic level, not line level. If the schmoe who was complaining didn't realize that he needs to have a mic pre to amplify a mic level signal to line level, it ain't your fault. :)
 
#47
Indeed. It's weird, the guy has some very respectable dynamics in there that he has clearly spent some dough on--LA2A, 1176, and multiple instances of them even, but just one Focusrite channel strip as far as any kind of functioning mic pre, which was relegated to another instrument. And this was a session(an overdub session) for a major-label record!
Actually, to clarify, I still couldn't get this guy enough level for his tastes running my active Sadowsky, through the Xotic with the gain cranked, straight in(no JDI of course). Maybe he had some kind of pad engaged and didn't know it(does an HD system have that?). Like I said, if I set things up that way into my own rig or anything else in recent memory, I woulda been clipping the bejeezus out of it in no time.
But I've seen this before. I do lots of electronic and dance stuff, and lots of these guys are so used to working "in the box", or maybe it's that they never learned how to actually "get in the box" in the first place!

Anyhow, I'm thinking it might make sense for me to put my Summit units in a portable rack(they're in my Omnirax workstation desk/rack now) to take to just such situations. The limiter in particular--the VERY affordable TLA-50--is really a great sounding unit that holds it's own against many more expensive/coveted units(to my ears at least:) Armed with those and the REDDI or JDI I think I'd be in pretty good shape.
 
#48
Dave Martin said:
I mean no disrespect here - really - but why would you settle for 'pretty good' or 'sounds all right' when recording a project either for yourself or for someone else?
Click to expand...

If its something minor for yourself and you can't be bothered micing stuff up/havent got time to, then it works ok.

Now, for someone else...that depends on if they're giving you money or not - if so, go all out...but if not, well...you get what you pay for...if your happy with your amp sound cool, if they're not and they're not providing other alternatives - for no money, they're lucky you could actually be bothered to bring it! :spit:
 
#49
bassbrock said:
I thought I was getting a pretty good sound with my Sansamp RBI (rackmount) but I guess you guys would think it is junk just like the pedal?
Click to expand...

Not junk, but by nature it's supposed to colour the sound with the tube emulation circuitry. I like my SAPBDDI a lot for live use as a overdrive stomp pedal. I can go for some Fender Bassman warmth to Geezer Butler distortion, and in between. For that it's great. It's just not the last word in transparent signal chain, if that's what you're after.

Personally, I stopped recording with it almost as soon as I got it. I prefer this setup, it's not high-end, but it works: Radial Engineering Pro D2 passive DI > ART Pro MPA preamplifier > ART Pro VLA Compressor, and then into my Edirol UA-1000 (line level input). This gives me a nice sound that sits well in the mix. I don't always use the ART compressor, sometimes I do that in the DAW if needed.

I had a Focusrite Platinum Series Trakmaster and although I soon realized it wasn't a great mic preamp, it actually was a very decent and full-featured channel strip with Comp and EQ that worked quite well for bass.
 
#50
addylewis said:
If its something minor for yourself and you can't be bothered micing stuff up/havent got time to, then it works ok.

Now, for someone else...that depends on if they're giving you money or not - if so, go all out...but if not, well...you get what you pay for...if your happy with your amp sound cool, if they're not and they're not providing other alternatives - for no money, they're lucky you could actually be bothered to bring it! :spit:
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the whole philosophy of "if they're giving you money or not - if so, go all out...but if not, well...you get what you pay for...", and I think (I hope) it'll come back to bite you on the ass.

If I'm playing - on a session, on a live date, whatever - I'm gonna play the best I can play with the best sound I can given the constraints under which I'm working (for example, when I'm required to record bass on 10 songs in 2 hours, or doing a session where the headphone situation sucks so bad I can't hear myself). Why? Because my best paying gigs over the years have come from someone hearing some track as I did as a favor for a friend, or some writers showcase backing up a no-talent schmoe for WAY too little money. At least one of those well paying gigs came to me rather than someone else was because the other bassist that they were considering has that "He only paid me $50 so I gave him $50 worth of playing" attitude.

Every time a track that you recorded gets heard by anyone else (and every time you play with someone else), you've effectively left a business card on the song or on the stage saying, "This is what I do - it's what I sound like, it's how I play."

If YOU don't care about your sound, why in the hell would you expect anyone else to care?
 
#51
+++ 1000 Dave!

You never know what something will lead to, plus you'll ultimately get a lot more satisfaction from working your hardest.

Bottom line, don't agree to a gig/session unless the $$$ is acceptable to begin with. Always play like it's the most important session ever, or don't bother.
 
#52
pbass2 said:
Indeed. It's weird, the guy has some very respectable dynamics in there that he has clearly spent some dough on--LA2A, 1176, and multiple instances of them even, but just one Focusrite channel strip as far as any kind of functioning mic pre, which was relegated to another instrument. And this was a session(an overdub session) for a major-label record!
Actually, to clarify, I still couldn't get this guy enough level for his tastes running my active Sadowsky, through the Xotic with the gain cranked, straight in(no JDI of course). Maybe he had some kind of pad engaged and didn't know it(does an HD system have that?). Like I said, if I set things up that way into my own rig or anything else in recent memory, I woulda been clipping the bejeezus out of it in no time.
But I've seen this before. I do lots of electronic and dance stuff, and lots of these guys are so used to working "in the box", or maybe it's that they never learned how to actually "get in the box" in the first place!
Click to expand...
Zing!

Again, not your fault he's a schmoe. No recording system I know of has a global pad available on its input stage. Pads are almost always located in the preamp stage. I suspect that he's got a 192 I/O unit (Invalid Link Removed) to get into his HD system. It's common knowledge that the 192 does not have preamps of any kind. It's purely an In/Out as its name suggests. This guy's one big turkey if he spent all that money on an HD rig and has just ONE preamp. :rollno: :smug:
 
#53
VintageBT6Lover said:
Zing!

Again, not your fault he's a schmoe. No recording system I know of has a global pad available on its input stage. Pads are almost always located in the preamp stage. I suspect that he's got a 192 I/O unit (Invalid Link Removed) to get into his HD system. It's common knowledge that the 192 does not have preamps of any kind. It's purely an In/Out as its name suggests. This guy's one big turkey if he spent all that money on an HD rig and has just ONE preamp. :rollno: :smug:
Click to expand...

In the schmoe's defence, the 192's offer the choice of +4 of -10 inputs, plus there's a user settable pad on the back of the unit (that can be switched in and out via software). So there might be some hardware feature that the schmoe simply didn't realie existed. But it's usually not the bass player's job to tell the engineer how to do his business (though most of us have been known to offer suggestions...).
 
#58
Dave Martin said:
In the schmoe's defence, the 192's offer the choice of +4 of -10 inputs, plus there's a user settable pad on the back of the unit (that can be switched in and out via software). So there might be some hardware feature that the schmoe simply didn't realie existed. But it's usually not the bass player's job to tell the engineer how to do his business (though most of us have been known to offer suggestions...).
Click to expand...
Just goes to show what a schmoe I am! :D
 
#59
ashly bp-41 bass preamp, good for what ails you.
they have a magic button, yep.

adjust the tone knobs to when you think it sounds awesome,
then press the "presence" button in and you have found IT.

ashly no longer makes these but they can be found on e bay for uasually 200-400 u.s. dollars.

some early fender bxr, brx? preamps were made by ashly just before ashly pulled the plug on the business deal that would have sent the production of these from rochester, ny to fullerton california. They are ashly with red knobs and a fender logo
 

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