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Bass rig vs fancy PA
- Thread starter sweetcharlie454
- Start date
MikeBass
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- Nov 4, 2003
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as a guy who usually recommends power and all that, this will sound odd, but if i could do all my gigs going direct no amp (except a good DI or preamp) i would. no hesitation. I worked years to get my sound from my hands. Just sayin'.
+1
I LOVE my rig, but when the room gets really any bigger than say, 500 or so, your rig is reserved for your monitor only and you need PA support. And at that point, I'd say let the sound company deal with hauling gear!
And in large venues and such, I'd say 98% of us here on TB wouldn't have a thought as to what to rig to use, when your back line could be 20' or more behind you, drums all of a sudden are more in your monitor than on the stage, guitars are louder from the FOH than from their amp and all that nice warm tone that you have been working on for all those years is sucked up and spit out by the subs from the PA.....
Just sayin'.....
Give me a good sounding monitor, nice DI and maybe even a nice pre and I'll be quite fine!
No rig all the time usually means a better mix and a MUCH better chance that you will be heard.
You just have to decide if you can get a tone from a monitor that you like.
THAT'S the hard part.
MikeBass
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There was a loud local band here in Detroit that was on the Bose endorsement when they came out.
They had a bunch of the "poles" and a few subs.
That thing would shake the walls. It can get freakin' loud.
aw heck, part of the learning curve is being able to play even when you can't hear yourself or the others optimally and when your onstage tone is terrible. We ARE in the entertainment biz, ultimately, the FOH sound is king, what we hear on stage is secondary. (IMHO) -
At first I figured this would be a no-brainer for me, since I generally like bass amps and despise fancy PAs.
Then I remembered: I did used to run my bass (particularly the upright) through the house PA a lot. Certainly was handy! It helped that I was running the sliders, and could trust myself to not bury myself (or anyone else for that matter).
It would take a lot for me to trust someone else with my signal completely. I mean, the FOH is often out of my hands, but to be completely at someone else's mercy for my presence onstage... it would have to be someone really exceptional running that board. If it were, I suppose there could be rewards.
If it's 19 out of 20 folks, though, I would really hate that. (I once did a theater show DI'd and the other musicians practically begged me to bring in my small amp. Even if we had to sneak it past the inept sound guy and the evil "director" woman.)
Then I remembered: I did used to run my bass (particularly the upright) through the house PA a lot. Certainly was handy! It helped that I was running the sliders, and could trust myself to not bury myself (or anyone else for that matter).
It would take a lot for me to trust someone else with my signal completely. I mean, the FOH is often out of my hands, but to be completely at someone else's mercy for my presence onstage... it would have to be someone really exceptional running that board. If it were, I suppose there could be rewards.
If it's 19 out of 20 folks, though, I would really hate that. (I once did a theater show DI'd and the other musicians practically begged me to bring in my small amp. Even if we had to sneak it past the inept sound guy and the evil "director" woman.)
scottbass
Bass lines like a big, funky giant
...ultimately, the FOH sound is king, what we hear on stage is secondary. (IMHO) -
+1. If only more "musicians" realized - and accepted - this!
That being said, for smaller gigs without full FOH, the on-stage amps provide significant amounts of the total FOH sound in addition to serving as your onstage monitors. Without more info on the type of music you play and the size of venues you play, it's difficult to say whether you will need your rig to provide some of the FOH thump.
Although IMHO that Bose setup won't provide adequate bass for anything much more agressive than Jazz or possibly 50's pop in small venues - like maybe 100 patrons max.
And OTOH I do agree with the sentiment that your tone is much more due to your hands (ie, your technique), not your rig. What we are considering with the PA vs rig discussion is mostly a matter of watts and clarity.
Ric5
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I like a small bass amp 200 to 400 watts and 4x10s with a big pa as support.
Then on stage I hear the bass amp. The audience hears the PA system.
Then on stage I hear the bass amp. The audience hears the PA system.
Yes I do I use a DI driver to the Bose but I also have 4 bose sub woofers I use as monitors if you just have the Pole I would say no you will tear it up in no time! but with subs and like I said I currently use 4 it is great with the bass driver I get the sound I want and push it colored through the PA so I have my sound and I do not us an amp ever! before this I had Tube 1970's SVT/w 4-10s try it I love it RTS
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This is also my experience. Tried it once (my acoustic duo uses an L1 with sub). Didn't do that again.
i once did a gig with a bose rep setting up 4 l1 subs for me. absolutely hated it. totally ball-less. i'll never do it again, even for one gig. if people have a problem with that, they can get someone else.
ok, i'll do it for one gig if it pays well.
ok, i'll do it for one gig if it pays well.
You said you have a Bose pole and sub setup. Knocking it without trying it or any experience to tell you that it won't work is being a bass guitard.
Take your rig to the gig and leave it in the car. If you do your sound check and the bass isn't cutting the mustard in the mix, then bring your rig in.
I've played with guitards who will only play through their rig and it's annoying as heck. Those are generally the same people who are constantly turning their amps up all through the sets and totally hosing up the FOH mix.
My current band (I'm the drummer) is a 3-piece and I'm fortunate to be playing with a guitarist and bassist who are tickled pink to go DI to the board and not have to lug amps to a show. The bassist tried some BassPod thing and didn't like it. He just got a Sansamp and now his Squier AJ Dlx sounds awesome through the PA. And the PA is not what I would classify as huge. All Yamaha Club Series V speakers and P-series amps. 1 x 15 main and 1 x 18 sub on each side of the stage and 2 12" stage monitors on stage. 500W x 2 for the mains, 700W x 2 for the subs and 350W x 2 for the stage monitors. They each get their own monitor mix through their monitor speakers and I have my own monitor mix through IEMs.
I think 2 x 15s and 2 x 18s with a total of 2200W provides "adequate" bass to the audience....
And it all makes it so much easier to get a good FOH mix and the least hassle with fighting feedback.
Take your rig to the gig and leave it in the car. If you do your sound check and the bass isn't cutting the mustard in the mix, then bring your rig in.
I've played with guitards who will only play through their rig and it's annoying as heck. Those are generally the same people who are constantly turning their amps up all through the sets and totally hosing up the FOH mix.
My current band (I'm the drummer) is a 3-piece and I'm fortunate to be playing with a guitarist and bassist who are tickled pink to go DI to the board and not have to lug amps to a show. The bassist tried some BassPod thing and didn't like it. He just got a Sansamp and now his Squier AJ Dlx sounds awesome through the PA. And the PA is not what I would classify as huge. All Yamaha Club Series V speakers and P-series amps. 1 x 15 main and 1 x 18 sub on each side of the stage and 2 12" stage monitors on stage. 500W x 2 for the mains, 700W x 2 for the subs and 350W x 2 for the stage monitors. They each get their own monitor mix through their monitor speakers and I have my own monitor mix through IEMs.
I think 2 x 15s and 2 x 18s with a total of 2200W provides "adequate" bass to the audience....
And it all makes it so much easier to get a good FOH mix and the least hassle with fighting feedback.
ps. and in case you think my bassist my just be a duffer, he is a guy who has been playing bass for something like 35+ years and has made his living doing nothing but playing bass, in the past. He brings his 70-something MIA Fender P 4-string to the gigs as a backup. He's just not a prima donna.
as a guy who usually recommends power and all that, this will sound odd, but if i could do all my gigs going direct no amp (except a good DI or preamp) i would. no hesitation. I worked years to get my sound from my hands. Just sayin'.
Me, too. I am still tempted to get as "flat" a rig as I can. Use a channel strip, etc.
I use PA stuff as my monitor ( some call this a bass amp)
so I know what my tone is supposed to be in a PA.
A gig with no amp ? Anytime !
(I do that often with IEM mixes)
I just have a few question about the Bose kit......
Ok for small stuff but if you need to pass over a drum kit , I have a little doubt.
If your technical director or soundman knows what he's doin' then go for it !
Your lower back will thank you in a couple of years
so I know what my tone is supposed to be in a PA.
A gig with no amp ? Anytime !
(I do that often with IEM mixes)
I just have a few question about the Bose kit......
Ok for small stuff but if you need to pass over a drum kit , I have a little doubt.
If your technical director or soundman knows what he's doin' then go for it !
Your lower back will thank you in a couple of years
I am lazy. I use my GK MB150 line out to the board and use the amp as my personal monitor. Everyone else in the band hears me thru their monitors at gigs.
I play with another band that does use the stick bose thing. I sing thru it but the bass sound is to hollow in the middle. Not working for hearing a fretless bass. I use my MB150 there too, same deal with the line out.
I play with another band that does use the stick bose thing. I sing thru it but the bass sound is to hollow in the middle. Not working for hearing a fretless bass. I use my MB150 there too, same deal with the line out.
i wouldent mind too much, if the system had enough subs to make me happy.
doable but not preffered, IMO.
doable but not preffered, IMO.
with just one sub, it will definitely get buried by a medium/loud drummer. with 4 subs, it will actually hang. but they're so expensive when a $300 combo can do just as well and have a much fatter and expressive sound.
stuart, why are you knocking someone for not trying the bose pole and comparing it to your band when your pa is a lot bigger and has way more balls than the bose pole? you don't have to try it to know that one sub and one pole is not going to cut it. even bose tells you it won't cut it. the bose rep told me that a bass player in a band should use a minimum of 4 subs.
stuart, why are you knocking someone for not trying the bose pole and comparing it to your band when your pa is a lot bigger and has way more balls than the bose pole? you don't have to try it to know that one sub and one pole is not going to cut it. even bose tells you it won't cut it. the bose rep told me that a bass player in a band should use a minimum of 4 subs.
