Bass rig vs fancy PA

[joegrant413]

My current setup is this:

Ibanez SR300 > Bass Big Muff > VT Bass > QSC K12 > house PA+subs

I monitor myself with the QSC, and directly send out the feed to the house. IMO, it sounds just fine. I am very relieved to be able to hear myself well without relying on someone or something else.

Our church band tried using in-ear monitors, and we didn't have it implemented well enough to really make it work. Some of us bring in our own amps or monitors, others use the monitors provided, and we're all pretty happy campers now.

I'm sure a tube bass rig would sound better, but my current setup is working great.

-- Joe

 

[groooooove]

the bose rep told me that a bass player in a band should use a minimum of 4 subs.

i wonder why a bose rep would tell you that you need a minimum of 4 subs

 

[rpsands]

i wonder why a bose rep would tell you that you need a minimum of 4 subs

Because you do. I'd be shocked if I could get by with 8 subs if we had a drummer there.

 

[peterpalmieri]

It's a useless arguement at the moment, the OP has not weighed in to say if he's playing with an acoustic guitar and vocalist or a metal band.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I did a sub gig with a project (acoustic guitar, bass, drums) that used that Bose system -- two towers and one sub. The bandleader offered to put me through the system. I didn't think it was enough to handle bass, but didn't want to say that so I told him it was no problem for me to bring in my rig.

Anticipating a possible concern, I encouraged him to tell me if I was too loud. As it turned out, he asked me to turn up. I kept my volume low because I wasn't sure if that skinny system was going to be enough for the venue, a medium-sized restaurant, but it sounded fine with just vocals, acoustic guitar, and kick. It's good that I used my own rig, though, especially after reading here that four or more subs should be used for bass.

 

[JimmyM]

i wonder why a bose rep would tell you that you need a minimum of 4 subs

as rp said, because you do. they're small and don't move a buttload of air by themselves.

 

[rpsands]

When our singer does louder acoustic gigs, he uses two bose subs just for his voice and two guitars. He uses just the L2, which has a built in sub, for smaller places. For the louder acoustic gigs (e.g. bigger room, outdoors) I have to bring my own bass rig. For the quiet indoor corner gigs, I just play through the L2.

When we're indoors or out, with a drummer who is not particularly loud mind you, four subs is enough for acoustic guitar and vocals and a tiny bit of bass (very little) with my rig carrying the rest.

Like peter says, it does depend heavily on the style of music, but :

Those Bose subs seem like about 85db sensitivity each to me (Maaaaybe 90 but I doubt it), or in that ballpark and seem to roll off steeply under 60hz or so (Judging by the way a drop D song made them distort like crazy). So figure four bose subs to equal a low sensitivity bass cabinet if I had to guess.

I'm pretty sure a single 3015LF sub would blow away a stack of 4 bose modules at the price of one.

 

[SteveC]

...a $300 combo can do just as well and have a much fatter and expressive sound.

This is why (although I have a $1,200 combo as I need something that can "hang" a little better for non-PA gigs) I still use a bass amp instead of a "monitor" for now.

 

[StuartV]

stuart, why are you knocking someone for not trying the bose pole and comparing it to your band when your pa is a lot bigger and has way more balls than the bose pole? you don't have to try it to know that one sub and one pole is not going to cut it. even bose tells you it won't cut it. the bose rep told me that a bass player in a band should use a minimum of 4 subs.

The OP said his band has a Bose pole and sub PA system. He didn't knock the idea of using it because it doesn't have enough subs. He knocked it because

A bass player's sound is something thay have worked for years to create, and it is this reason, that i am proud of my rig

That's why.

I don't know anything about the Bose pole system or how many subs the OP's system has (he didn't say - they could have 10 subs, for all I know). So I have no idea how it compares to what my band uses. If the OP's band bought a Bose pole system that is not big enough to run the whole band through, then that's a reason to not go all DI. But, the OP was not doubting it based on that. He was doubting it because it's not his rig and, therefore, won't have "his" sound.

I've been in bands before where the guys wouldn't even go DI through the PA in practice! Even though they were using pedal boards with DI out for all their effects. Because they wouldn't have "their tone". I find that attitude to be, ummm, counter-productive to a band's progress.

The guitard (and bass guitard) tone prima donnas need to get it straight that that last 1% of tone that they're getting by using their rig is going to mean exactly 0 (zero) to the audience when they play a gig. So, wasting your bandmates time in practice by screwing around to get that last little bit of tone perfection is just that wasting a bunch of other peoples' time. And spending extra time during setup and sound check and complicating the stage setup and making the sound man's job harder is all also detrimental to the band for various reasons.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-good tone! I recently went from a Peavey BAM210 combo to an SVT 2 Pro with a Peavey Pro410 cab, and now have replaced the Peavey cab with 2 Aguilar cabs - because I really like the sound I'm getting with the SVT and Aggies compared to any of the previous permutations. BUT, I also know that the difference in tone that is there is just for ME. If I were playing a gig with a big enough PA, I would have no problem using a Sansamp and running DI. Like I said before, that's what the bass player in my current band does and his bass sounds GREAT through the PA.

 

[Lync]

A bass player's sound is something thay have worked for years to create, and it is this reason, that i am proud of my rig. My band recently discussed not bringing any amps, but instead all playing through our "Bose pole" and sub PA system, i am the only one to dissagree with the move, does anyone have experience with the bose set up, or a situation with your bandmates wanting you to go all pa?

I've been using the Bose system for over a year now (Model II with 2 bass modules + T1). The rest of the band also invested into them so we use 3 in total (2 guitars/bass/drums/3 vox rock).

It will enable you to fit in smaller venues and is a quick setup/tear down. I hated it from the start for bass and tried to use different subs to give it some life. It is okay with an emulator pedal in front of it...but I admit I just don't dig it for bass. Unlike the old saying, it seems to be "all highs and lows"; that sweet low midrange is processed away into oblivion. With an amp your tone is like going into a small PA, but bringing an amp defeats the purpose IMO.

As for the technology...it works well in certain rooms. People will rave about the clarity of the sound. In others your sound can get lost and lose punch.

So...as a bassist, unless you sing and can't use someone else's for vocals, I would give it a C- for performance.

 

[D.M.N.]

I dig my rig. I just never feel that PAs capture my tone. I can't drive them or use feedback.
And what looks more badass?

This:
http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/dec09/images/BoseL1compact_03.jpg

or This:
Link Removed

 

[JimmyM]

I don't know anything about the Bose pole system or how many subs the OP's system has (he didn't say - they could have 10 subs, for all I know). So I have no idea how it compares to what my band uses. If the OP's band bought a Bose pole system that is not big enough to run the whole band through, then that's a reason to not go all DI. But, the OP was not doubting it based on that. He was doubting it because it's not his rig and, therefore, won't have "his" sound.

I've been in bands before where the guys wouldn't even go DI through the PA in practice! Even though they were using pedal boards with DI out for all their effects. Because they wouldn't have "their tone". I find that attitude to be, ummm, counter-productive to a band's progress.

i don't, and i'll tell you why...in order for a band to really deliver onstage, i find that the more comfortable each player is with their tone, the less focused they'll be on that and they'll be more focused on playing, even at rehearsals. and i, too, am not real big on di's, though i've finally come to grips with the idea that when i'm on the road, there will be times when i get a crappy amp or they won't have a good enough mic for my cab. in those cases, a di + character pedals will have to do.

EDIT: Listen, you volume freaks...being comfortable onstage doesn't mean you should turn way up. your comfort should never come at the expense of everyone else.

The guitard (and bass guitard) tone prima donnas need to get it straight that that last 1% of tone that they're getting by using their rig is going to mean exactly 0 (zero) to the audience when they play a gig. So, wasting your bandmates time in practice by screwing around to get that last little bit of tone perfection is just that wasting a bunch of other peoples' time. And spending extra time during setup and sound check and complicating the stage setup and making the sound man's job harder is all also detrimental to the band for various reasons.

honestly, i couldn't care less about complicating the soundcheck. nobody cares when they complicate my job. not that i go out of my way to complicate their job but why should i care about complicating the soundman's job? he's getting paid. and if there's not enough time to sort out your special needs, get there earlier.

also, while it is true that the audience probably doesn't care what i use for a rig, i despise the thinking that "the audience can't tell the difference so why should you?" it's my JOB to care more than the audience. the reason i sound good with the band is because i care.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-good tone! I recently went from a Peavey BAM210 combo to an SVT 2 Pro with a Peavey Pro410 cab, and now have replaced the Peavey cab with 2 Aguilar cabs - because I really like the sound I'm getting with the SVT and Aggies compared to any of the previous permutations. BUT, I also know that the difference in tone that is there is just for ME. If I were playing a gig with a big enough PA, I would have no problem using a Sansamp and running DI. Like I said before, that's what the bass player in my current band does and his bass sounds GREAT through the PA.

trust me, you would care greatly if you went from your svt/aggies to a bose pole.

 

[chadds]

I had 2 SWR Goliath Jrs. (2 2x10) at a gig. One was constructed by Eden in those early days. The other had the PAS speaks.
Audience member wanted to know why he heard Eden tone.
So they are listening.

 

[jaywa]

I did a sub gig with a project (acoustic guitar, bass, drums) that used that Bose system -- two towers and one sub. The bandleader offered to put me through the system. I didn't think it was enough to handle bass, but didn't want to say that so I told him it was no problem for me to bring in my rig.

Anticipating a possible concern, I encouraged him to tell me if I was too loud. As it turned out, he asked me to turn up. I kept my volume low because I wasn't sure if that skinny system was going to be enough for the venue, a medium-sized restaurant, but it sounded fine with just vocals, acoustic guitar, and kick. It's good that I used my own rig, though, especially after reading here that four or more subs should be used for bass.

Well played all around, sir. Very professional way to handle it and the end product was much better than it would have been otherwise, I'm sure.