basscyclist thread picture thread

[fdeck]

I can't believe we're still talking about rim brakes in 2021... I've been using hydraulic discs for so long that I don't think I could even go rim brakes on a road bike at this point. Hydraulic discs are essential for any kind of technical mountain biking, not only because they work when it's wet. Even the best rim brakes don't have the power and modulation of even middle of the road discs. I remember riding steep DH sections with rim brakes, I'll stick with discs.

The two bikes in my family's fleet, that are new enough to have been made with disc-compatible frames, both have disc brakes. I like my disc brakes. I can't put them on any of my older bikes, which all have decades of service left in them. When people ask my opinion, I recommend discs.

I'm still on the fence about whether discs are actually better than rim brakes for general purpose bikes. In the entire family fleet, we've worn out exactly one rim in the past 20 years, and it was on a bike where the rear brake was perpetually rubbing without anybody telling me, on a daily route that went through some gritty construction areas.

I can lock the wheels on any of my bikes. That's enough braking power. I don't love any brakes, but then again, I don't ride on MTB trails.

The cycling world is a world of extremes and rituals, so it's hard to know (outside of this thread) what's believable. I know people who got new bikes with disc brakes, and the difference was so profound that they now consider riding a bike with rim brakes to be suicidal. In other words, they were comparing old, low quality, deteriorated rim brakes with brand new snappy disc brakes. And remember that for a lot of people, a "bike" now weighs 60 pounds and goes 28 mph.

I tried both mechanical and hydraulic discs. I agree with my friends who ride off-road that they prefer hydraulics. On pavement, the differences between high quality and well maintained brakes of different types is less profound. It's very hard for the casual consumer (including myself) to figure out from what we read online, the maintenance requirements for hydraulics. Lots of cyclists claim to bleed their lines regularly, but they also claim to strip down and overhaul their entire bike after every ride. A once-per-year checkup, with things repaired only as needed, is more my style.

I'd love to visit Newfoundland again. My family took a couple trips there in the 80s, via the CN ferry. We took some long summer car trips in the maritime provinces -- partly for gastronomical reasons. The fresh seafood, purchased at the wharf, was out of this world.

 

[turf3]

You do realize that rim brakes ARE disc brakes, with 26" diameter (more or less) discs?

The idea of adding two hydraulic circuits to a BICYCLE really boggles my mind. OK, for some exotic mountain biking stuff that I don't do, I'll go with that. Honestly, while it can be a lot of fun riding on gravel trails, the whole "bombing down the mountain" thing never caught me. Frankly if I'm going to spend the day on steep difficult narrow trails full of rocks and roots, I'd rather put on my boots and carry a small pack and do that on foot.

For me a great deal of the GOOD things about a bicycle are the SIMPLE things. I don't wear special clothes, I ride in sneakers (ditched the toe clips and straps years ago and never even got a pair of clipless cleated pedals/shoes), my shifters are mounted on the down tube, my brake levers are made of metal, my saddles of leather. About every year I have a good look-over the whole thing and adjust what needs it. I've got enough crap that requires frequent maintenance and fiddling with. I want to just be able to wheel the bike out to the driveway, step on one pedal, swing over the seat, and I'm on my way. (This is also why I ride 36 spoke three cross wheels with 32 mm tires on the street.)

I did my stint as an imitation road racer in my early 20s. I decided that whole scene with the anger and one-upmanship everywhere you turn, was not for me. Not everything we do has to be a competitive endeavor with ever-escalating expenditures of money on gear and accessories, you know. I already play music, for crying out loud.

So I'm plenty happy with my steel-framed bikes running Brooks saddles (with springs, no less!), rat-trap pedals, wheels that won't turn into potato chips if I screw up and hit a pothole, and brakes and shifters I can fix by the side of the road with a pair of pliers and a Crescent wrench if I need to.

Oh yeah, my main bike - the front wheel dates back to 1985, if I remember correctly - STILL not worn out.

 

[J_Bass]

Hydraulic disc brakes are the only thing on the bike that I don't need to do maintenance.
And they are much safer, I don't see how that can be disputed.


But, I also think that we all see bike riding in different ways, and that's great.

Some wear bike clothes, some don't, some use clip pedals, some don't etc..

But there is no argument regarding the efficiency of hydraulic brakes, clip pedals, tight clothes, all that has a purpose and is an improvement.

One may like them or not, or even find that useful or not, but they are safer and more efficient.

 

[turf3]

Well, I've been riding seriously since 1976 and have not had a brake failure nor any kind of accident or close call related to rim brakes in that time. So I'm willing to continue taking my chances on rim brakes.

 

[J_Bass]

Well, I've been riding seriously since 1976 and have not had a brake failure nor any kind of accident or close call related to rim brakes in that time. So I'm willing to continue taking my chances on rim brakes.

I'm sure they will never fail you.

 

[DirtDog]

I'm with you, hydraulic disc brakes are much, much superior.

I use rim brakes on my SS, but it has less braking power than hydraulic discs, by a lot.

And if it's raining, or there's mud, forget it.

For city bikes, rim brakes work well, but for road, mtb, gravel, hydraulic discs are the best choice.

I’m the bike mechanic in my house; wife and daughter’s bikes have rim brakes as does my road bike. No getting away from the dark art of rim brake adjustments. My MTBs all have hydraulic disc. Been 20 years since I had the ol’ V-brakes on an MTB.

 

[DirtDog]

Well, I've been riding seriously since 1976 and have not had a brake failure nor any kind of accident or close call related to rim brakes in that time. So I'm willing to continue taking my chances on rim brakes.

For every anecdote, there’s another anecdote.

I had a rim explode on me once. I had worn the rim down so much with rim brakes that the entire thing split apart - with an inflated tire on it. They surprised me to say the least. Luckily I wasn’t riding it at the time. Haven’t had that happen with disks!

 

[J_Bass]

I’m the bike mechanic in my house; wife and daughter’s bikes have rim brakes as does my road bike. No getting away from the dark art of rim brake adjustments. My MTBs all have hydraulic disc. Been 20 years since I had the ol’ V-brakes on an MTB.

I use rim brakes on my singlespeed, too. They work well, but with mud or even rain, their efficiency drops significantly.

Personally I prefer hydraulic disc brakes.

But if you ask me if I want rim brakes or mechanical disc brakes, I would choose rim brakes.

 

[DirtDog]

I use rim brakes on my singlespeed, too. They work well, but with mud or even rain, their efficiency drops significantly.

Personally I prefer hydraulic disc brakes.

But if you ask me if I want rim brakes or mechanical disc brakes, I would choose rim brakes.

yep- hydro all the way for MTB for me. Mud and grit are common around here.


Haven’t ever used mech disc brakes, but that’s what’s spec’d on my soon to arrive fat bike. I’ll let you know what I think of them in a couple of months.

 

[J_Bass]

yep- hydro all the way for MTB for me. Mud and grit are common around here.


Haven’t ever used mech disc brakes, but that’s what’s spec’d on my soon to arrive fat bike. I’ll let you know what I think of them in a couple of months.

Must depend on the quality, as everything.

The only mechanical disx brakes I had were not good. They needed more hand power to work as I wanted them to. It tired my hands on long descents.

 

[J_Bass]

This was more or less 10 years ago, they are probably better, now.

 

[pie_man_25]

I can't believe we're still talking about rim brakes in 2021... I've been using hydraulic discs for so long that I don't think I could even go rim brakes on a road bike at this point. Hydraulic discs are essential for any kind of technical mountain biking, not only because they work when it's wet. Even the best rim brakes don't have the power and modulation of even middle of the road discs. I remember riding steep DH sections with rim brakes, I'll stick with discs.




Oh it is but definitely best enjoyed in July or August. The rest of the year is a bit of a harsh mistress. L'Anse Aux Meadows is worth seeing but it's a hell of a drive from anywhere. We went up there this summer. I had been there before but it was the first time for my wife and kids. It's 12 hours drive from our home in St. John's... We split it up and spent a few days in Gros Morne on the way. Gros Morne is also worth the cash. It's absolutely stunning. We talked some people at L'Anse Aux Meadows that had ridden there from Nova Scotia on bikes.

These are the replica sod houses they build. Walls made of peat ~6' thick. The original site is back behind this one they restored it to as close to natural as possible. Below is Gros Morne Mountain from the approach trail. We did the summit. It's an 11 mile hike with 2600 vertical feet. The approach trail climbs from sea level to about 1000' over 3 miles, then the summit trail climbs the other 1600' in under half a mile (the trail goes up the gully on the right side of the pic). The last pic is from part way up the summit "trail."

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Re: the disc brakes, I can see that. Hydraulics are kinda top of the line atm, right in that 4 figure range that I'm just not about to shell out for just yet. It only makes sense that an expensive bike would outperform a cheap one, especially in the places it was engineered to perform.

My bike is a cheap commuter. Back in NB There was a trail that had a downhill that led to a bridge that got all washed out and then demolished. Back at that time the brakes on this bike were still very much a work in progress. Especially the front one since that front rim was all warped and rusted so it practically wasn't road safe. I basically learned how to maintain a bike by making and keeping this one road safe for a couple years. I got to sign out a trek bike when I was elsewhere for a course, it had 29" wheels, front shocks, indexed shifting, and an aluminium frame. That thing glided on the road compared to my bike, on trails a bit, too. There was a sort of secret hill with a ramp that I found, honestly I wouldn't have even tried that on my bike. I think when I was done with that bike, the handle bar was pointed just *slightly* to the right.

I don't know about hydraulics, but I can see a lot of benefit in not having to adjust disc brakes as often. I've still got to overhaul the bearings on this bike if I decide to keep it.

 

[Mark Reccord]

I was mostly being facetious as there are lots of applications where rim brakes still make sense. If it ain't broke, don't fix it type of thing. If they work for you, then that's awesome (no sarcasm or snark intended here). They don't work for my applications and in general once you're into trail riding on mountain bikes, they might as well not exist.

There are sections of trail I ride regularly that I would not even attempt without hydraulic discs and big rotors (I run 200mm) and plenty of sections I remember being very sketchy with rim brakes that are no issue with modern brakes (also geometry and suspension). On steep granite slabs with a necessary sharp turn or go off a cliff into the ocean at the bottom, you want to have supreme confidence in your brakes. It's not only the power and modulation, it's the consistency on long descents. Every rim brake I've ever ridden on a mountain brake started to fade after a couple of minutes of steep descent.

Hydros aren't all that complex. If you can adjust a derailleur or rim brakes you can bleed a hydraulic bike brake. I do mine once a year or so but might need to do them a bit more often if I rode more. Takes about 20 minutes per caliper.

Mechanical discs have improved. I have a cheap set of Tektros on my fatbike and they are ok. Not great but good enough for winter riding which is admittedly less demanding than summer riding around here. What I really miss on the fatbike is a dropper seatpost. Will be getting one for this season.

 

[turf3]

Well, of course, for highly technical off-road riding, there's a whole set of specific equipment - what set me off was the statement "It's 2021, how can we still be talking about rim brakes" as if all cycling is highly technical off-road riding - and as if the only way to approach cycling is with the technology-heavy approach that chases the latest and most advanced.

The vast, vast majority of cyclists are perfectly well served by steel-framed bikes with wide(ish) tires, strong wheels with 32 or 36 three-cross spokes, and rim brakes. These simple machines have a lot of advantages as well, though they are not cutting-edge technology for highly technical off-road riding. After all, just riding a bike at all, constitutes in itself a choice to adopt a non-leading-edge technology.

In a world where any time you take up a new endeavor there is a vast industry frantically trying to sell you stuff to pursue it ("Now that you've been playing bass for six months and you can reliably play roots and fifths in three keys, surely to goodness you need three or four $2000 basses and two different $2000 amp rigs, plus $1000 worth of pedal effects!"), anyone who chooses to step away from the equipment arms-race comes in for a lot of incredulity and scorn. Maybe you can understand that we get a bit defensive now and then.

 

[turf3]

I am minded of a quote from the late Sheldon Brown:

"It's OK to walk up a hill occasionally. If you're in such a hurry, why are you RIDING A BICYCLE, for crying out loud?"

 

[fdeck]

I think what's going on with brakes is just the effect of progress happening in an industry that makes "durable goods." A good quality bike under normal utilitarian or recreational use should last 30+ years. Even longer, if the higher quality parts are recovered and combined to make "parts" bikes. Within that time span, component designs will undergo many changes, most of which can't be retrofitted onto older bikes. For that reason, a bike will spend most of its life being compared to bikes with better technologies for things like brakes and gearing.

How we deal with that issue is a personal choice. Some prefer to have the latest stuff. Fine, if their old bike goes to someone else who's happy with it, it's all good.

As for mountain biking, I can certainly see how that's a whole 'nother world. The reason is that unlike conventional pavement or even "easy" off-road riding, bike technology is expanding the range of terrain that's accessible to riding. For this reason it's quite believable that an otherwise incremental improvement in something like braking becomes a big deal on a MTB. That, and MTB'ers do a lot more braking.

Early generation non-suspension MTB's with pavement tires actually make great general purpose bikes. They're rugged, and you can still find parts for bikes made during that time period.

I've got my list of old parts styles that I consider desirable, acceptable, or not. I won't keep wheels with steel rims, except on one bike in the fleet that's an antique. I'm very picky about quality brakes, so I'm probably biased by not suffering crummy brakes.

There's a saying among single-speed riders: My bike has three speeds: Sitting, standing, and pushing.

 

[pie_man_25]

I think what's going on with brakes is just the effect of progress happening in an industry that makes "durable goods." A good quality bike under normal utilitarian or recreational use should last 30+ years. Even longer, if the higher quality parts are recovered and combined to make "parts" bikes. Within that time span, component designs will undergo many changes, most of which can't be retrofitted onto older bikes. For that reason, a bike will spend most of its life being compared to bikes with better technologies for things like brakes and gearing.

How we deal with that issue is a personal choice. Some prefer to have the latest stuff. Fine, if their old bike goes to someone else who's happy with it, it's all good.

As for mountain biking, I can certainly see how that's a whole 'nother world. The reason is that unlike conventional pavement or even "easy" off-road riding, bike technology is expanding the range of terrain that's accessible to riding. For this reason it's quite believable that an otherwise incremental improvement in something like braking becomes a big deal on a MTB. That, and MTB'ers do a lot more braking.

Early generation non-suspension MTB's with pavement tires actually make great general purpose bikes. They're rugged, and you can still find parts for bikes made during that time period.

I've got my list of old parts styles that I consider desirable, acceptable, or not. I won't keep wheels with steel rims, except on one bike in the fleet that's an antique. I'm very picky about quality brakes, so I'm probably biased by not suffering crummy brakes.

There's a saying among single-speed riders: My bike has three speeds: Sitting, standing, and pushing.

Tech works in incremental improvements, whether it's worth it to a person or not is a whole can of worms. Me? I'm just happy to have a bike to take me to work and throw a wrench at, and somehow it's legal to have this much fun just being a dude now that I've got a car that doesn't always need something.

I'd probably feel pretty weird about bringing that bike to a more serious mtb trail or any kind of race. But that's okay, it's got character. A patina that only the sands of time can grind into something. The dirt off the ages gums up the BB, the wise grease of the philosophers lubes the headset. The knowledge of the elder creatures breathes life into the wheels.

or maybe it's just motomaster white lithium grease and the pump i use on my car tires. But to me it's so cool it might as well be.

 

[fdeck]

There's a certain sense of pride and aesthetic pleasure to being able to get around on a primitive machine that cost less than 100 bucks. Also, the older tech, while not as snappy as the new stuff, sometimes works a lot better than it looks, so it's a way to hide a nice bike in plain sight.

 

[turf3]

I think what's going on with brakes is just the effect of progress happening in an industry that makes "durable goods." A good quality bike under normal utilitarian or recreational use should last 30+ years.

I think you meant to write "130+ years". Barring rust-through of the frame tubes, most bicycles will outlive most humans.

 

[pie_man_25]

I think you meant to write "130+ years". Barring rust-through of the frame tubes, most bicycles will outlive most humans.

I can agree with that, when used within their limitations I don't see a bike frame, especially a steel one, having a shelf life. Barring rust or maybe a flaw in manufacture.