• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

basses for newbies (SX batch build thread)

Status
Not open for further replies.
#322
GassieBall said:
I agree with your disagreeing. I guess all those classically-trained young children should be learning fretted violins and cellos :) LOL.
Click to expand...

Hey, I WAS one of those tortured youngsters forced to play violin :eek: Maybe I'm just not the brightest bulb, but I carry around a fixed up SX fretless (just in case), and I've not had the courage yet to pull it out and use it at work. . . even though I'm playing stupid easy stuff. Once I take my eyes off those lines, I can't take responsibility for what actual notes are being played :D . . . and I have to read the charts. Maybe one of these days I'll have a song I can do entirely on open strings and I'll rock it fretless.

I hold to my contention that it is easier to functionalize a player. . . particularly a newbie. . . on a fretted bass than a fretless. Now if some genius kid decides to go jaco and pull the frets out with piers and proceed to rip, I wouldn't be opposed.
 
#323
Played a gig last night with my stock SX J bass
During a song the guitards got louder and I had to play much harder than normal
Think I finally heard what Chung was talking about with the pups perhaps reaching some kind of overdriven output (had a dbx compressor and a LMII that was set with flat EQ and master at about 9:00 with a TL606; was not amp clipping or speaker being pushed too hard)

Turned up the amp and went back to work with a medium strong fingerstyle touch and the tone was great and louder

Perhaps the stockers distort for those with a heavy right hand

PS - Anybody noticed that their SX doesn't stay in tune as well as a regular Fender?; have a number Fenders that come out of the case in tune for weeks at a time; never the case with my SX as it always needs a touch up
 
#324
Jim C said:
PS - Anybody noticed that their SX doesn't stay in tune as well as a regular Fender?; have a number Fenders that come out of the case in tune for weeks at a time; never the case with my SX as it always needs a touch up
Click to expand...

Yup. At first I thought it was crappy tuners, but now I'm thinking it comes down to a floppy neck. To be honest, I'm less and less stoked about my SX with each day that passes. Anybody who's been following my posts in the various short scale and SX threads of late will have seen my gradual decline in excitement... I'm actually thinking about picking up a Squier Bronco as my next cheap mod instrument...
 
#325
Curiosity has me thinking about the DiMarzio model P. . . anyone here have experience with it? particularly vs. the NP4? Is it something I shouldn't even bother with if the NP4 is working for me?

I've been playing #4 now exclusively for a while, and it has been performing very well. And the p-bass suits me well because I don't find myself needing to twiddle with tones that often. I attribute most failures to "operator error" and tend to think improvements in the player will fix much more than improvements in tone, so I don't fiddle much after I have a workable sound which is very easy to come by with #4. Trouble is finding a place to put my thumb on the that P-bass :eek:
 
#328
For me it was just 'settling in' to my SX and discovering all kinds of things wrong with it. The original draw was "it's cheap, and I'll swap out what I don't like and it will be great!", but it has some more systemic problems that are really starting to bug me. It's not the first SX I've had, either. It was also the realization that "Hey, I could get a pretty good used Fender for cheap and have a more solid instrument". A new Squier CV + strings + setup will run you about $400, and you'll have a much more solid bass IMO.

This is not in any way to denigrate the good work or craftsmanship demonstrated by Chunger and others. This thread has, I believe, definitively proved that an SX can be a pro quality instrument in good hands. I'm sure as well that Chunger would have had more reservations about some of his more daring mods had he started with a batch of $300+ instruments. However, like Chunger has pointed out, it's not a good time/pay ratio to work out all the kinks present in the average SX, which means that unless you're into the blood, sweat and tears learning process, it may not end up being the investment you thought it would be.

I dunno, I'm just already about $300 into my SX and still not happy with it.
 
#329
This is the very reason I purchased a pair of MIM Fenders. . . I wanted to get hands-on with the "standard" as a comparison. I have not had problems with the SX staying in tune for all practical purposes. Given it is a non-reinforced "skinny" 4 string maple neck, I have not experienced tuning shifts that have been abnormal on the 34" scale instruments. Lower tension on the 32" scale instruments may actually make the tuners slip more because they aren't friction loaded as much?

Here are the things the fender is better at:

tuners are better
electronics are better (CTS guts)
stock pickups are better (no SX effect)
Neck pocket is MUCH better on average
fit/finish is better
nut is better

But, at the end of the day, I'm just looking for something with solid bones, and in my opinion. . . and it's just that, an opinion, the SX has better bones primarily due to specs.. . . not manufacture process.. . because if it was a contest of manufacturing, the Fender wins.

The SX neck has a thicker profile which I think is essential if you're going to build a non-reinforced maple neck. The American Standards are a different ball of wax because they're graphite reinforced. This is one of the reasons I was particularly thrilled when I got my first SX in the mail. They got it right in the spec.

I also personally prefer the flatter 12" fretboard radius of the SX. With "proper" technique, you don't have to go left thumb over the neck when playing bass and on the 6 string, it's impossible anyways, so i'm accustomed to playing "proper" like I was taught. The 12" gives me better playability than the 9" of the Fender. . . an additional bonus is more neck material and better string to string balance on traditional flat pickups. The stock SX bridge performs just as well as any other traditional bridge.

Both brands exhibit mis-alignment issues with pickguard and neck set. . .roll the dice. .. you never know what you're going to get.

Fender could easily change it's specs, but then the MIM's and Squires would conspire to sound better than the American Standards on average which is unacceptable to the well-oiled marketing machine. Fender knows this and took legal action against Rondo even though the old headstock is almost identical to Sadowsky (who I assume is not getting sued because they are positioned in a different market segment).

So, I think the SX has better bones than the MIM fenders. . . and even though I complain more about the SX's when I'm working on them (more wonky stuff), at the end of the day, the SX has more sonic potential (on average).

Cost-wise, it has been a rare occasion for me to find a good condition sub $300 MIM fender, and the SX's have been running around $160 ea. Tack $200-$300 on top of that for work + parts to get an instrument up to full capacity, and that's your final cost out the door.
 
#330
All very good points as always, Chung.

Have you had a chance to check out the Squier CV and VM basses? I've found (and others seem to agree) that they trump the MIMs in a lot of ways. Played one yesterday and it felt very solid indeed, although I'm not sure what they're using for the necks. If I were currently in the market for a cheap full scale, I think I'd choose one of these.

I think I'm feeling a bit 'modded out'... :hmm:
 
#331
I took a long, hard look at the CV and VM squiers, but didn't pursue them due to the basswood bodies. I wanted to focus on Alder/maple instruments. . . with a few ash ones mixed in "accidentally".

Again, the marketing machine dictating specs. They are protecting their flagship products.
 
#332
chunger said:
I took a long, hard look at the CV and VM squiers, but didn't pursue them due to the basswood bodies. I wanted to focus on Alder/maple instruments. . . with a few ash ones mixed in "accidentally".

Again, the marketing machine dictating specs. They are protecting their flagship products.
Click to expand...

Hey Chunger, actually 'Basswood' is a really good wood, Ernie Ball Music Man uses Basswood Bodies on their Bongo Series.. and that bass is freaking sweet, personally, CV and VM Squiers are a good deal (Specially CV Squiers, the Fiesta Red Precision comes with Brass Saddles, and all of them comes with HMV Bridges)
 
#333
Well, finally got ahold of DiMarzio and it looks like I will not be able to OEM their line :mad:. The catch criteria is they want to see original "branded" instruments which I am not doing in this project. I guess the painter's tape with a sharpie number is not enough. I am capable at this point of sourcing high quality components and assembling my own spec basses, but the cost would probably be upwards of $900 per instrument which would defeat the core concept of this project. The price point I'm aiming for right now is as far under $500 as I can go. $300 would be ideal if possible. (I'd probably have to develop some direct contacts in China to be able to hit the $300 mark). 1/2 of you guys are probably celebrating though because you don't like the Model J's :spit: It's a bummer for me because I really felt I could bring some balanced and highly positive exposure to that product line, and Jasaman did pick the Model J as his favorite. Oh well, Nordstrand it is then. . . nothing to cry about except for the increased cost.

The NP4's are working for me. I have 2 sets of NJ4SE's (which I like personally) that I will now install and pressure test in the field. . . I go back to the studio on Friday to mix down the rest of the test samples. The other genres will reveal more about the pickups we have available. It seems at least 1/2 of the people on this thread seem to like the NJ4 best, so that's one flavor (traditional) that is an option and they are significantly cheaper than the SE's. I also hear the P/J setup with NP4 and NJ4SE is an absolutely wicked combo.

I should not make any pre-judgements on the basswood squier CV or VM's until I get hands on. Maybe a trip to Guitar Center is in order. I haven't "shopped" for basses in a long long long long time. If hardware and pickups prove to be solid on those, they could very well price compete with the SX builds if you figure in the Nordstrands. . . but then, of course, you don't get the Nordstrands :)

I injured my pinky pretty badly last weekend at my A/V gig, but it seems to be a bit more functional today. I'm going to dig into #7 and see if I can get another P-bass done in the next couple of days. Jasaman picked up a new student through this thread. He's interested in a P. . . I can certainly accommodate that request!

A few steps forward, a few steps backwards. . .
 
#338
I tried 2 CV's at GC and the set up was horrible
On one, the truss rod vibrated as loud as the strings and the other had the action so low it was unplayable
I hear they are good but these 2 were brand new and a huge disappointment on set up
 
#340
selowitch said:
Chunger, it seems you've made yourself a few fans here on TB, brutha.
Click to expand...

Ha. . . a reality check though. . . go wander into the luthier's section of this forum and take a peek around. Most of those builders do WAYYYY better work than me every day. . . and push technology and the art forward.

The only difference is I know how to take pretty pictures, and I take it upon myself to document in excruciating detail everything I do because I thought someone out there in the internets could benefit from the play-by-play. I know I would have. Another difference I guess is they choose to actually make money :eek:

So, In my mind, those are the heroes. I'm here trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel and come up with something affordable for the masses. . . and not doing a very good job at that :rollno:

Jim C said:
I tried 2 CV's at GC and the set up was horrible
On one, the truss rod vibrated as loud as the strings and the other had the action so low it was unplayable
I hear they are good but these 2 were brand new and a huge disappointment on set up
Click to expand...

I find you kindof have to use your powers of imagination when playing these things in the raw. Imagine it was actually playable, and there wasn't truss rod rattling going on, and the pickups were actually lined up, there was actual balance from string to string, and the pots didn't crackle. . . sweet. . . this one's going to rule!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back