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basses for newbies (SX batch build thread)

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Hey, Chunger, great thread as many others have said! Where could I find a schematic for those dual-layer series-parallel setup you have described?

I'm pretty sure I posted a photo of the schematic on this thread. . . because I forgot to bring the diagram with me to the studio when I installed it and had to refer back to the thread for my own diagram :D


OK . . . back to the builds. . . well, kindof. Willie's bass is on the bench tonight.

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The neck, pickup and bridge alignment looked good to go, so I went ahead and took the strings off. . . and discovered that all 5 of the bridge screws were loose and stripped.

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So much for quick and easy. I decided to put the bridge on, and remove one screw at a time and shove 3 toothpick shards split in half into the hole along with a generous amount of Titebond. The allowed me to keep the bridge in position and not have to re-set it completely but give the screws something to bite on. I figured if this doesn't work, I can still drill the holes out and plug them. . . I really would prefer not to.

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Next, I straightened the neck as much as possible to prep for fret leveling.

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After the fretboard was generally leveled, I made a slight deviation from my normal method of cutting the fall-off. I usually use 3 layers of blue tape on the 11th fret and I suspect this creates and angle that is a little bit steeper than necessary. Measuring 3 layers of blue tape, I get .013". If I use 2 layers of blue tape and 1 layer of my copper shielding foil, I get ~.0115". .. plus, the copper will not wear down with friction like the blue tape does, so this is how I decided to cut the fall-off.

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And it worked quite well. . . I still suspect my angle is steeper than necessary, so next time, I will try 2 layers of copper foil and 1 layer of blue tape. At any rate, here's the fall-off. I'm taking pictures so I can remember what I did for future reference.

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So there it is. . . for cost calculation purposes, I timed myself tonight. . . start time 1:39am .. . . stop time 4:59am. . . this fret level went smoothly. With the bridge hickup figured in, I think I'm getting a bit faster and the results are getting better also. There are still a few more optimizations I can do like go to courser sandpaper on one side of my leveling block to cut faster when necessary. But for now, here's Willie's bass. I should be able to wrap it up tomorrow after the bridge screws set up completely.

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Ahh, how this thread makes me wish I had the money to invest in tools, and the time to learn how to use them. I have a few basses that need work done (frets leveled, new nuts cut). Sadly, there isn't even a repair guy within about a 2 or 3 hour drive that I could take them to to have worked on, and I can't fathom ruining the neck on any of my basses, because they're aren't as cheap as SX or as easy to replace, either.
 
I was finally able to get Jasaman on the phone and get a full report of what went down Tuesday with #4 and #7. Both basses went to the music classes at Nueva School where the kids were able to play both, and they were excited to play with the new toys. The blue strings were a big hit, and the instruments sounded good in the room. Keep in mind, #7 has the stock NP4 pickup and #4 has the new custom pickup I'm thinking is going to be the new standard but I'm verifying.

On the gig that night, Jasaman had in the back of his mind the question of how many songs he would get through before he went reaching for his jazz bass. . . he is after all resolutely a "jazz bass" sort of player. Luckily I have #3 on the table right now, so no such crutches :D But, he may be starting to be a believer that #4 is actually the one bass that will rule them all. He ended up playing the entire set on it without feeling the need to swap out. The new pickup he feels is awesome and are really starting to bring out the full sonic potential that's in the wood on this one. It's the sort of bass where you get so much usable tonal range from the finger attack that there is really no need to be fiddling with the amp or tone control very much at all. . . just a touch of treble roll off every once in a while on the tone knob which is exactly where I want it. I'm dying to get this one one tape. He says he put more fret wear on #4 on Tuesday than it normally would have got in a year :hiding: I'm happy about the latest breakthrough. We're really dialing in a great standard configuration for the p-basses. The stock NP4. . . still brilliant. You guys have the latest audio samples from #7 and I feel that bass sounds tremendous but personally, I prefer the new pickup. It's the amplified sound I had in my head when I started the P's. . . and then some.

I have a very important conversation lined up for tomorrow with a local shop that has a Plek station. If all goes well and the numbers line up to still hit the target prices, the rest of this batch of basses may end up Plek'd. This will be a major up-tick in speed and hopefully quality of these builds.

All this hand leveling though is not wasted time . . . the software in my head needs to thoroughly comprehend what's going on to inform decisions on the Plek. I hope to be impressed. . . or, at least we are ramping up to have a good man vs. robot shootout!

Who will be victorious? Cheap chinese labor? or Precision German machine?
 
Plek is a go !!!! :bassist::bassist::bassist:

If anyone on thread has been thinking about "chungification", now would be the time to contact me. I have a ramp-up time to re-organize my operation to prep all the current remaining instruments simultaneously as opposed to the current one-by-one process. Fret work is the main labor bottleneck currently, and having this resolved frees up enough of my time to increase volume right away.

I will be able to do standard 34 inch SX jazz and P (P/J) basses only. . . other neck profiles will incur extra machine setup costs that complicate the batch.

What will happen from here on out is an "inventory" of current basses, a round of parts orders to cover the remaining builds, threaded insert installation and neck, bridge, pickup alignment work on all instruments, and then Plek.

If you would like your instrument to be included in this batch, please email me "[email protected]" and we can discuss details. Here is how I propose to structure it:

standard basic package:

1. install threaded inserts/shim if necessary
2. Plek process
3. final fret polish and setup (new Dunlop SS strings or strings that you provide)

options:

1. electronics/pickups/shielding upgrades
2. new nut (Plek'd)
3. new bridge
4. Mono M80 case (available early July)

un-forseen circumstances that could elevate your cost:

1. factory nut is defective (forced new nut)
2. pickups/bridge/neck mis-aligned
3. fret replacement necessary or highly recommended upon Plek
 
so wait, you got a plek machine? :eyebrow:

Nope, I negotiated a wholesale Plek rate with a semi-local shop for doing my basses in batch.

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They have down time on their machine, I cannot invest at this point in expensive production machinery. I talked to them to see if we could work out a mutually beneficial arrangment. I know there are a few shops in San Francisco (closer) that have machines, but often, big city shops also have big-city egos and are very busy. . . bursting at the seams busy. Overhead for operating a business in the Sacramento area is lower, and I know that area's been hit hard by the economy so I thought I'd ask. . . what could it hurt? Behind the scenes, I've been asking a lot of people for support of my project. The worst that has happened is they've said no or ignored me.

I do not need a lot of hand-holding on the front and back end of the plek process, so they gave me some parameters within which we were able to negotiate a good price that will not significantly effect the out-the-door price of "basses for newbies".

Quality goes up, price stays relatively constant, I can get more basses into the hands of students. . . it's a win all around. If quality improves, I'll gladly sacrifice a bit of profit margin and "farm out" technically difficult, labor/time intensive work to a robot. This will save me 60 hours of labor every batch of 10 basses.

That being said, I went back to re-visit the fret work on #3 today. . . because I have nightmares of how well #6 played .. . so buttery smooth and I think I've learned a few things along the road here. Sure, I had to put the strings on and take them off about 5 times and redo the setup every time and re-polish the fall-off frets about 3 more times, but #3 (which already had great playability) has improved. 2 things are driving me:

1. Man vs. machine --> I do not want to simply concede to the robot. I want my hand dressing to be on-par with the best. . . at the root of it, this project is an investment in my own education, so I should learn everything I can.

2. Real-world knowledge of the minute details of string to fretboard interaction will go a long way in letting me make decisions on the Plek. After all, it's a tool. . . only as good as the parameters that are entered in.
 
OK. . .finishing up Willie's bass. I know a few people have asked on forum and on this thread how to do a setup or "Help me with my setup!". . . it's really hard to help someone verbally without some solid measurements. I've been waiting for some cheap automotive feeler gauges to come in the mail and they have not. I was hoping I'd have a simple method to show for measuring neck relief, but I've been setting by feel up til now, so I'll just show and explain what I can.

These are tools you should have. . . all of them can be obtained locally and cheaply, or you probably have something workable lying around the house already: a sharp pencil, a business card, a ruler, allen keys appropriate for your bass, and a tuner.

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Notice I have metric and standard allen key sets. This is critical. Use the correct type of allen keys for the bass you're working on. The SX basses are metric. . . the MIM Fenders are standard. I keep both types at the ready. The last thing you want to do is strip a screw. . . especially that truss rod one!

First, take your ruler and business card and make some 1mm hash marks at the corner of the card. This is perhaps not the most precise way to make measurements, but it's miles better than no measurements at all. You should be able to reasonably guess the fractions in-between the 1mm hash marks.

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Use this card to measure your action at the 12th fret. . . the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string. . . ok, I'm measuring on the 11th fret in the picture, but it's incredibly hard to take a photo at this angle and hold all the stuff in place. I posted this picture big so you can zoom in and see the hash marks. I'm a hair under 2mm. . . this bass just by sheer luck lined up almost perfectly from my wild truss rod guess before I put new strings on and tuned up to pitch. . . and the action was almost right on.

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But, I've been doing a few basses lately, so I have a bit of a feel for zeroing in on a functional setup. That being said, I loosened the truss rod. NOTE: I loosen all of the strings before making any adjustments on the truss rod just to be sure I don't damage the threads on the rod.

I usually want to explore the full range of usable relief (typically between .3 and 1mm) on each bass before settling in on a setting. It's wise to tighten your way into your final truss rod setting. . . so go looser than you need to (more relief than you want) and slowly tighten your way towards your final relief setting. This minimizes shift in the rod after you have your bass set. There's nothing more frustrating than sending a bass out of the shop perfectly set to get a call a couple of days later that the action went all high and weird on the instrument. Same concept as tuning an instrument. . . tune up to pitch. If you overshoot, go back lower than the target pitch and slowly tune up.

I "measure" my relief like this. . . I fret the 1st fret with my left hand, and with my right hand, I use my thumb to depress somewhere around the 13th fret and use my pointer finger to press and observe the relief at the 7th fret using the string as a straight edge. Your hand size will be different, but as long as you're consistent, you will be able to get an idea of the bow in the neck without expensive tools. Remember. . . the rule of thumb which is .3mm-1mm. This is the range inside of which we typically find the optimal setting. If you pick up a random bass and find 2mm of relief, you know there's a strong possibility it will not play right, and if it doesn't, you'll have a good idea why.

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The way I experiment with the range of relief is to start with the truss rod loose (lots of relief). . . I then set my action to something right at the edge of reasonable or a bit lower than that point. I want to be able to hear buzz, severe buzz, and clear notes as I play along the fretboard. Let's say for our example we find this point at ~1.7mm action at the 12th fret. I set my truss rod to ~1mm relief and set my action to 1.7mm (at the bridge saddles). . . play and observe. I then tighten the truss rod a bit. . . maybe 1/4 turn and re-check my relief. Observing that the relief has decreased slightly, I adjust my bridge saddles again to set 1.7mm action at the 12th fret. . . play and observe. I then tighten the truss rod by another 1/4 turn, set my action to 1.7mm and repeat the process all the way until the neck is almost straight. You will find somewhere in that range, a setting that gives you the best compromise of playability in the upper, lower, and middle registers of the fretboard. Having explored the full usable range of neck relief, you can now select the optimal relief setting for the bass remembering to loosen more than necessary and then tighten up to your final truss rod setting. After the truss rod is set, you can raise your strings at the saddles to set the action where you like to normally play. Some folks dogmatically advocate a certain relief setting as the "only" way to set an instrument. The word optimal is loaded because that definition is different for each player, but you certainly can't know for certain whether the bass is set the best it can without exploring the full range of usable relief and deciding where to set it based on that information. At this point in time, I'm finding this optimal setting to be different from instrument to instrument. If after Plek, I find the settings to be identical, I'll know the differences were a result of human error or factors I did not account for in my methodology.

Since I am working with well leveled fretboard, I experience buzz in regions of the neck or along the entire length of the neck evenly. If you do not have a level fretboard, you will find buzz up to a certain fret and then the buzz goes away . . . and other anomalies caused by high and low frets. This will make diagnosis a bit more complex. This will not change the procedure for methodically finding the optimal setup on a bass but throws a few more variables into the mix. I recommend getting the Fret Rocker tool from Stewmac even if you don't plan to do your own fretwork. It will allow you to at least locate trouble on a neck. It's also a handy tool to have in your pocket when you go shopping for a bass.

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Please keep in mind that all of the procedures I illustrate in this thread are just one way of doing things, and as you probably observe reading through the thread in sequence, I'm always learning new tricks as I go along and my methods and even target setups are constantly shifting as I learn. If you do it differently and get great results, you're probably taking another valid approach.

On Willie's bass, I'm set just a hair under 2mm with my fretwork and with my strings. I'll keep the bass handy for a couple of days and play it often to make sure the neck has stabilized before sending it back.

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Speaking of Willie's bass. . . this thing sounds incredible. It's easily within the top 85% of production instruments I've come across. Now that it's actually playable and the bridge is actually connected to the body :D, it's a real keeper. Willie bought it used at Haight Ashbury music. . . whoever sold it made a very foolish decision. This thing weighs in at 8.41lbs. and sounds GREAT! Jasaman, tell Willie to never give up this bass. If he does, have him give me a call, and I will buy it immediately.
 
Just thought I'd quickly post a tidbit that came up in a recent email. I'm using a scale similar to this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=17YNH7AQF8V5AXW61JC7

It only costs ~$25 and I use it to weigh various items for shipping all the time. I bring it with me when I go to check out a bass for purchase and people look at me like I'm crazy, but weight, while not the sole indicator of tone capacity, is a strong factor and it's something that I CAN measure accurately and quickly.
 
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Well, I am seeing the beginning of the end of this thread as there are no more reliable sources of old-headstock SX basses. Another base instrument and a wholesale source will have be discovered and behind the scenes, I am pressing all of my contacts and connections to line that up for the next batch. . . well, if there's a next batch. We'll see how long it takes for me to distribute these ~10 builds. I already have a very serious inquiry about 3 of them for another school music program at the end of the summer, so that's a great start and honestly, one of the best places for these basses to end up because they can help inspire a kid to take up the bass. . . as opposed to all those other inferior instruments that are available.

I had assumed 10 SX basses would keep me plenty busy for a year, but with the Plek, I'll be all finished and bored in a couple of months. I have the beginnings of a great system to bring outstanding budget instruments into the world, but no instruments to build on.

I sent one last ditch email to Kurt at Rondo music today urging him to re-consider the headstock shape. . . if he goes as far as the "dixie cup" mod, I'm in for another SX batch. I don't have my hopes up on that one, but if that works out, there will still be life in this thread. If not, I'll have to try and find someone sympathetic inside FMIC or discover a more direct source for parts or instruments.

The Squier CV and VM series look promising but some sort of special arrangement would have to be made to maintain my current price. . . pretty sensitive given the target customer.

Once again, if anyone has a recommendation for base instruments, please let me know. I'm looking for a classic type 4 string setup and it needs to be low cost. . .open to all options at this point. If it comes from the same factory as the SX's so much the better.
 
Once again, if anyone has a recommendation for base instruments, please let me know. I'm looking for a classic type 4 string setup and it needs to be low cost. . .open to all options at this point. If it comes from the same factory as the SX's so much the better.
Perhaps Jay Turser?

BTW, have you considered the argument that the last thing we want "newbies" obsessing about is the shape of the headstock of their first instrument? While I prefer the old-style headstock, I've been playing for 25 years and have been through dozens of instruments. Surely a new bass student would be grateful for a quality bass given the Chunger Treatment whatever the relatively trivial aesthetic details.

Just sayin'.
 
You could look into Johnson. I'm pretty sure you'll be looking at plywood basses once you reach that cheapness level. Try this website:

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I think Davidson basses might be the right headstock shape.

Honestly, I'd start going through craigslist and seeing which basses you can pickup. I just bought a squire jazz for $50 the other day. I know at least a few newbies would like to start on a Chungafide Ibanez SDGR, which you can usually find here and there for next to nothing.

Just my $.02, KEEP UP THE AWESOME WORK!
 
Massive order placed with Nordstrand. . . custom single coil jazz bass pickup development initiated. The "Chunger" custom p-bass pickup turned out so over-the-top good that I'm not settling anymore. I guess that's the only way to go if you test darn near everything and are still unhappy with the results. Playing #4 on gig ruined him. Jasaman is about done with the Model J's. Not enough complexity and dynamic range after a good stretch of time with them. First option is custom NJ4SE with 4 wire leads to we can retain the same wiring harness and the push/pull push/pull push/pull configuration. . . if not that, we incrementally optimize the "chunger" custom single coil pickup until it rules.

Gotta sell some basses now. . . this is going to get expensive in a hurry. Finally received payment for #6, 2 potential buyers for #8, and #5 and #7 still looking for a place to call home.

I need to get myself Rosetta Stone and do some serious brush-up on my Chinese. . . it may be time to begin the process of seeking out my own direct source for base instruments to my spec. I took a couple of hours with paper and pencil last night to come up with a good headstock shape. . . traditional and flowing, but most assuredly not Fender and substantially different from Sadowsky and Lakland as well. This is not rocket science. There are lots of aesthetically great ways to go. Just have to sit down with it and put in some design work. If headstocks are trademarks, you might as well have a great one that's unique because it doesn't cost any more per unit to manufacture a good shape as opposed to a crappy one.

:D
 
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