Basses with dummy coils …

[Green Knight]

I know the middle one is the dummy coil. What I'm wondering is if its presence affects tone/output in the same way as another coil would if present within the pickup casings themselves.

Alembic Series 1 and 2 pickups are indeed single coil. When you look at any of them, it looks like three pickups to the uninitiated, when actually the smaller coil in the center IS the hum-canceller.

Here's a USA TODAY explanation of Series pickups/electronics from the FAQ Section on The Alembic Club, the Alembic users forum at www.alembic.com. The poster is Mica Wickersham, the GM of Alembic and daughter of Susan and Ron Wickersham, the founders.

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In this second post, MW discusses the upgrade they introduced to combat noise in a world that's more complex noise-wise since their original inception in the 70's. To give you an idea why Alembics are what they are, she discussed her dad built a small coil in his workshop, and a Faraday cage to double check his work and fine tune the system in the bass after the upgrade is finished as a final checkout.

As a single coil system, the Alembic Series set will never be beaten or exceeded, and the field adjustability if need be is one more reason why there is simply nothing like these.

Session ace and James Taylor bandleader Jimmy Johnson relates that his are usually silent, but even he met a Waterloo: He'd get called to small recording studio in SoCal on a second floor. Right on the other side of the studio wall was a telephone poll with many electric services coming off it, and a transformer. He said he could find one spot, point exactly in a certain direction, and freeze, otherwise the noise was going to get him. Otherwise, never a peep.

 

[Green Knight]

The answer is pretty simple. The issue is not big enough that enough people would be willing to pay for a dummy coil.

How expensive is a dummy coil?

 

[J Wilson]

I know the middle one is the dummy coil. What I'm wondering is if its presence affects tone/output in the same way as another coil would if present within the pickup casings themselves.

I'm certainly not electronically adept, but I'm told it's strictly RF related and makes no sound of it's own, save for eliminating hum.

And to make it even more confounding for electronic idiots like me: The non-series pickups are stacks, but the lower coil is the same idea, hum elimination, but not contributing to the sound output of the pickup on these 9v systems.

 

[atquinn]

Suhr has a dummy coil system for their guitars. I have it in a Suhr strat I have. The dummy coil is in a rout under the pickguard. At one point, Suhr sold it for aftermarket use as a BPSSC (back plate silent single coil) system. The built in one works great, the backplate version is apparently still good, but not quite as effective. Either way, it's not as plug and play as just using noiseless pickups. For one thing, all the pickups have to have the same wind direction and polarity. So if you have a guitar with single coils and one is rwrp to cancel hum when they are combined, you would have to replace one of the pickups to use the system. The second possible major issue is that the dummy coil is designed for a certain output range of pickups. So if you have a pickup that is hotter, hum won't be canceled as effectively.

Manufactures have been making noiseless single coils for decades and most people think they sound just as good as true single coils. Those that don't would probably also think that a dummy coil compromises the true single coil tone as well.

The market has voted and dummy coils are an evolutionary dead end when it comes to resolving hum from single coils.

 

[Spectrum]

Then there are the side-by-side humbuckers in a single coil size...

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I have two basses, one with Carvin stacked humbuckers, and one with the DiMarzio DP149 Ultra Jazz.

So isn't that what a P-bass pickup is, but just arranged to fit in a Jazz pickup form?

 

[Green Knight]

Manufactures have been making noiseless single coils for decades and most people think they sound just as good as true single coils. Those that don't would probably also think that a dummy coil could compromised the true single coil tone as well.

If so, this would apply equally to Alembic as any other bass I guess; to a purist, a Series I or II bass would not be a true single coil. Is that fair to say?

 

[J Wilson]

How expensive is a dummy coil?

ANYTHING you add in serial production adds cost in time and materials, and warranty and customer satisfaction has to be accounted for. And if in the real world most of your customer base can't hear it or want it, you move on.

 

[DJ Bebop]

So isn't that what a P-bass pickup is, but just arranged to fit in a Jazz pickup form?

Yup!

 

[J Wilson]

Hair Splitting, Clean Up on Aisle Three . . .

 

[Lance Bunyon]

What's the best dummy coil for metal?

 

[logdrum]

Like, IF there's a surefire way to cancel hum that retains the tone of the single coils, why isn't it standard? Do they affect output in any negative way?

It is called a Fishman Fluence single width pickup and I'd had EMG single coils in my stratocaster to compare as well as just regular strat ( Lollar and Fenders) pickups. I cannot tell the difference with the real thing. EMG and other noiseless are a bit polite or darker

 

[FullumMusic]

From my understanding, a dummy coil attached to your circuit will change the tone to some extent. To what extent is determined by how the circuit is designed and implemented. An electronics-brain-person will be able to explain more as to how and why. But attaching a dummy coil to the circuit will change the properties of the circuit, ergo, the tone.

IMHO i've never heard a "noiseless single coil" or "hum cancelling single coil" that sounds like a single coil (Or set of single coils.) They're usually split coils or humbuckers made to fit in a single-coil casing, or occasionally dummy coils, and designed to get as close as a split-coil or humbucker can get to a single coil sound. But they always sound different to me. They don't sound like single coils because they're not. They're split-coils or humbuckers and they sound like split-coils and humbuckers.

That's neither good nor bad. Just different, and only bad if you specifically want that traditional single coil sound.

But also, a properly designed and built single coil pickup, paired with a properly shielded bass shouldn't cause too many problems. $0.02

 

[DJ Bebop]

What's the best dummy coil for metal?

 

[Green Knight]

ANYTHING you add in serial production adds cost in time and materials, and warranty and customer satisfaction has to be accounted for. And if in the real world most of your customer base can't hear it or want it, you move on.

That's fair, but I can think of examples of other things a significant number of builders do that John or Joan Q. Bassist doesn't notice or care about. Just the other day we were discussing the Tonepump preamp and how few Spector Euro owners know about the trim pots that help tame the crazy EQ. And if the dummy coils can go inside the pickups, how much more expensive can that be? Honest question bc I dunno.

 

[Green Knight]

But if they do change the single coil tone regardless, then it's a moot point.

 

[andruca]

Music Man did include cancellers in early StingRay Five to handle any issues with the single humbucker in single coil mode, but long since abandoned it for a different shielding strategy that they think is effective enough. Also, for a while Lindy Fralin brokered a system for Strats that employed a hum canceller, but quit carrying it quite a few years ago.

I'm sure there's some more I didn't know about.

Not exactly. They abandoned the single coil position. Now there's parallel, series and "filtered series" (which in fact sounds nothing like my 3 coil era SR5s in single coil + dummy). They changed from 3 coil ceramic to 2 coil alnico around 2008.

 

[Green Knight]

IMHO i've never heard a "noiseless single coil" or "hum cancelling single coil" that sounds like a single coil (Or set of single coils.)

They don't sound throaty enough! I tried Man o Wars and Barts and they just seemed to be missing something.

 

[atquinn]

If so, this would apply equally to Alembic as any other bass I guess; to a purist, a Series I or II bass would not be a true single coil. Is that fair to say?

Well, generally noiseless pickups are made to give you the sound of X single coil pickup, say a jazz pickup, without the noise. Alembic pickups weren't trying to sound like any particular pickup in the first place so they can be judged on their own merits without any sort of vintage reference point.

 

[atquinn]

They don't sound throaty enough! I tried Man o Wars and Barts and they just seemed to be missing something.

I think I can hear and feel the difference, but lots of people can't and of those that can, some prefer noiseless and for some it's not important. Have you ever played an instrument with a dummy coil and what did you think of that versus an actual single coil?

 

[Clark W]

Hum-Canceling Aguilar AG 4P/J-HC 4-string P/J Pickup Set.
I use their P/J set in my American Performer. They work really well.
They use this J pup, split in halves, side by side.