Double Bass Bassist Career

[jazzbassnerd]

I'm pretty sure you could get a job teaching anywhere if you were an amazing player and didn't have any degree at all.

I won't name any names but you know there are alot of them teaching at major universities right now. Does it matter? Hell no. I'd rather study with someone who can play the instrument than someone that met the requirements to have a piece of paper that says they are qualified to teach.

I was thinking more of a high school job or a professorship at a school, not like Chris Potter giving lessons at NYU.

If that is the goal, then only do performance and just write on the side. But if he wants to teach high school, or get some type of professorship at a college, I would suggest that the Music Ed. degree would help.

 

[Peter Ferretti]

I'm pretty sure you could get a job teaching anywhere if you were an amazing player and didn't have any degree at all.

I won't name any names but you know there are alot of them teaching at major universities right now. Does it matter? Hell no. I'd rather study with someone who can play the instrument than someone that met the requirements to have a piece of paper that says they are qualified to teach.

That can go both ways though. I have been lucky enough to have a lot of esteemed teachers who could play most players in the world tails off, and I have learned more from the teachers in local symphonys who have not gone to grad school and such. Just because your in BSO, or NY Phil, or LA Phil, or even principle in that orchestra doesn't mean your able to teach. I want to see that degree or at least hear that your a good teacher before I study with them.

 

[mcnaire2004]

I would like to go to a conservatory learning music. I don't know how their "other" non-musical classes go. My goal is to #1 play,#2 teach,#3 write. I would love to grad school and get a job in a decent paying symphony job. Then teach a local high-school strings. Writing would be a side thing. A few of my former high school teachers were in a symphony while teaching. I thought it would be a good way to make a living off of music.

 

[kraid]

First off no conservatory in the entire world would let you do this and I highly doubt any university would.

mcnaire, I think you're missing something about jobs that require performance and composition degrees. They're both skill based. You're not going to get a symphony job by turning in a resume. You're also not going to get a symphony to play your piece by showing them your diploma. I don't know what you would gain by doing three majors at once.

Majoring in music performance requires 100% commitment. I can't even fathom what it would be like to put additional work on top of that. I've never understood it when people talk about double majoring in music and something else. It's not fair for either major. Lawrence Hurst put it best when he said that it's not fair for either major and when the time comes, people won't be practicing over studying for a test, because the effects of a failing grade are so much more evident than an unhappy teacher. It seems to me that people who want to double major in music and something else do not plan on getting a job in music and only do it because they feel like they'd be giving up something they've had in their lives for a long time. I would just get lessons on the side if I had another major.

I have a friend that went to Eastman for violin who also majored in premed at the same time at the University of Rochester. Guess how long that lasted? She's now at NYU doing only music.

I think that maybe you should focus on practicing and getting into a good school before thinking about things like this. If you really want to do other majors then go back after you do one of them. There's nothing wrong with being in school for a long time if you have things you love.

 

[bierbass]

Well said Kraid.

 

[bierbass]

I would like to go to a conservatory learning music. I don't know how their "other" non-musical classes go.

That's just it, you don't know how those "other" classes will go. How do like Psychology? Or foreign languages, English, geography, the list goes on. Most state schools require electives like those. Indiana and CCM are two well known conservatories at state schools. Try doing an English term paper while practicing for juries and studying for a theory final, and if you are in education practicing trumpet for your brass methods final. Although IU and CCM are a couple of the big music schools, it'd be just as stressful at the University of Tennessee. And if its not, your not doing it right.

 

[Heifetzbass]

Mcnaire-

I am a full-time orchestra teacher, part-time private teacher, part-time orchestra player, and make a decent living. I play in many orchestras in the area, have about 8 good private students, and have a successful orchestra program.

I have an undergraduate degree in music ed. I really never intended to teach, but I had the degree in my back pocket.

I have masters in performance. This was suggested to you before. Masters study would also give you an opportunity to explore the composition angle. You could have a secondary focus in comp.

Both my degrees are useful. My Ed. degree gives me the option of teaching. I get paid ok, have good benefits, and can retire at 58. My performance degree helped me become a better player. I had more time to focus on my playing. As an undergrad there was so much distraction... not so in grad school. Plus, my teacher pay is better because of the masters.

My suggestion is to get an ed. degree and focus on going to a conservatory for your masters. I know some really awesome players (former students) who are auditioning all the time and still waiting for that gig. They are doing their time in the regional orchestras.

There is no way to teach orchestra full time and play in an orchestra full time. There will be too many schedule conflicts and your focus will be non-existent.

I think you need to find a good mentor and let them guide you. This person is normally your teacher. What do they say?

HTH,
Brian

 

[mcnaire2004]

That's just it, you don't know how those "other" classes will go. How do like Psychology? Or foreign languages, English, geography, the list goes on. Most state schools require electives like those. Indiana and CCM are two well known conservatories at state schools. Try doing an English term paper while practicing for juries and studying for a theory final, and if you are in education practicing trumpet for your brass methods final. Although IU and CCM are a couple of the big music schools, it'd be just as stressful at the University of Tennessee. And if its not, your not doing it right.

I'm not interested in a state school. I was asking about 'other' classes in a all music college.

 

[GirlBass]

Unless you go to a conservatory you are going to have to take non music classes. Schools like Rice, Indiana, BU, etc will all require that you take general education classes in addition to all of your music ones.

 

[bierbass]

Its also worth noting that schools like Juilliard and Curtis don't offer music ed. degrees. So if you plan to pursue education you'll be going to a state or a private university. Even if it is a private university you'll have to take non-music courses to receive your degree.

 

[Alex Scott]

A lot of students don't consider private teaching as a possibility. You can make pretty good money if you add 30-40 students a week at maybe $35-$50/hour. 30 students a week for 50 weeks a year and $40 a lesson is about $60k, or you could supplement a regional orchestra position with 20 students and not let things get out of hand.

Taking a pedagogy class or two can be very helpful, as well as getting involved in some String project or youth orchestra in your area or while you are in college.

 

[mcnaire2004]

Its also worth noting that schools like Juilliard and Curtis don't offer music ed. degrees. So if you plan to pursue education you'll be going to a state or a private university. Even if it is a private university you'll have to take non-music courses to receive your degree.

Thanks but a lot of conservatories offer music ed. Those are not the only music colleges in the world thanks though. And to note. If you get a bachelor degree at Curtis you get any music class not given there free at (can't remember the name I think its UP).

 

[mcnaire2004]

A lot of students don't consider private teaching as a possibility. You can make pretty good money if you add 30-40 students a week at maybe $35-$50/hour. 30 students a week for 50 weeks a year and $40 a lesson is about $60k, or you could supplement a regional orchestra position with 20 students and not let things get out of hand.

Taking a pedagogy class or two can be very helpful, as well as getting involved in some String project or youth orchestra in your area or while you are in college.

Thanks man. Defiantly the best advice I got so far.

 

[bierbass]

Thanks but a lot of conservatories offer music ed. Those are not the only music colleges in the world thanks though. And to note. If you get a bachelor degree at Curtis you get any music class not given there free at (can't remember the name I think its UP).

My mistake, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[BGreaney]

Thanks but a lot of conservatories offer music ed. Those are not the only music colleges in the world thanks though. And to note. If you get a bachelor degree at Curtis you get any music class not given there free at (can't remember the name I think its UP).

Mcnaire...first you said you weren't inquiring regarding state schools (making it clear you were talking about conservatory). Now you changed your mind?
Anyway, I'd say you're getting a little over ambitious with your 12 year degree plan here. Keep in mind, if you get in somewhere for performance, you could always compose for fun. Many schools offer comp classes for non-comp majors that you could definitely benefit from. You'd be streching yourself way too thin trying to pursue so many things at once. You say you want advice from "the serious bassist that practices daily." This is what you're getting, but you don't seem to like that many of these serious bassists are the dissenting voices. You need to see that almost all of these people are speaking from personal experiences. It would not be in your best interest to pursue such rigorous studies if you want to pursue getting a job in a symphony.

p.s.- true, you may be able to pursue other classes outside the conservatory with their sister schools. Such is true here at MSM as well as Mannes, CIM, NEC, Curtis as you said...you get the idea. That doesn't mean that those extra classes are enough for an extra degree. They are primarily seen as classes involving some outside interests. My friend is currently taking 2 classes @ Barnard/Columbia that he now hates because they take too much time...

 

[GirlBass]

Clearly bierbass, you don't know what you're talking about...

Mcnaire, a lot of us gave you great (realistic) advice that seems to have fallen on deaf ears. You can't possibly go through college, get three degrees in six years, and not expect to take any non-music classes.

And you're thanking the guy that told you there is a chance you can get 30-40 bass students on a weekly basis paying you upwards of $50 and hour, saying that's the best advice you've received? I don't think anyone has that many bass students.

You are very young still, but you should be aware of your less than gracious attitude with those being so patient and helpful with you, or the advice is going to disappear pretty quickly.

(disclaimer: I could be totally wrong here as the internet is no place to discern tone, but I did get a sense or rudeness in the last few posts.)

 

[STRONGBOW]

Why am i saying this & what do i know? Well, i'm in the tail end of my 2nd semester as a jazz bass major at a school in Chicago. Yeah-it's not classical. Before college i thought i'd have loads of free time, would audition in as an upper level player, would be able to party whenever i wanted, would be going to a different jazz club each night, jamming till all hours on the weekend.

The reality: it's rare that i have more than 2hrs of free time a day. I auditioned/chaired last out of 9 jazz bass majors [3 seniors, 1 junior, 1 soph, and 4 freshman]. I've yet to attend a party, i haven't been to any jazz events besides Chicago Jazz Fest & a few different Jazz concerts [and classical] at Orchestra Hall-i work at the store, so i get to watch em for free on our big screens when i'm working, jamming? it's been hit or miss.

Man I really sympathize with you, but you know, back in the day, we didn't have all these university opportunities since there weren't many programs offering jazz bass degrees. And the thing is, in an environment where "jazz" has become pretty much what any old one wants to call it, the music has suffered terribly and now the media pretty much defines what jazz is-- and the major record labels. And because of this, its a real sad fact that-- at least in the U.S.-- the greatest of the great are finding themselves struggling to keep a steady date book. I don't know a single first-call jazz bassist in Washington D.C., who isn't supplementing his income with teaching on the side. The fact is I agree with Phil Woods who was quoted in Jazz Improv magazine last year (and I am paraphrasing here) "the universities are turning out 3,000 new tenor sax players every year, and we don't need 3,000 new tenor sax players in this country...." Same goes for jazz bass players. If I can give one piece of unsolicited advice: maybe if you spend a little more time studying at the UNIVERSITY OF RUSH STREET or GREEN MILL COLLEGE instead of at the conservatory, you might audition higher next time. In the old days, players jammed in the beer joints and cellar clubs in order to earn their way into a local scene--and its where they learned to play with soul and develop a sound.....there ain't no book of exercises that can teach you to play with soul.

 

[Nick Lloyd]

And you're thanking the guy that told you there is a chance you can get 30-40 bass students on a weekly basis paying you upwards of $50 and hour, saying that's the best advice you've received? I don't think anyone has that many bass students.

A client of mine makes a very good living teaching 50+ bass students. It's not for everyone, sure, but it works for him.

 

[mcnaire2004]

Mcnaire...first you said you weren't inquiring regarding state schools (making it clear you were talking about conservatory). Now you changed your mind?
Anyway, I'd say you're getting a little over ambitious with your 12 year degree plan here. Keep in mind, if you get in somewhere for performance, you could always compose for fun. Many schools offer comp classes for non-comp majors that you could definitely benefit from. You'd be streching yourself way too thin trying to pursue so many things at once. You say you want advice from "the serious bassist that practices daily." This is what you're getting, but you don't seem to like that many of these serious bassists are the dissenting voices. You need to see that almost all of these people are speaking from personal experiences. It would not be in your best interest to pursue such rigorous studies if you want to pursue getting a job in a symphony.

p.s.- true, you may be able to pursue other classes outside the conservatory with their sister schools. Such is true here at MSM as well as Mannes, CIM, NEC, Curtis as you said...you get the idea. That doesn't mean that those extra classes are enough for an extra degree. They are primarily seen as classes involving some outside interests. My friend is currently taking 2 classes @ Barnard/Columbia that he now hates because they take too much time...

I was talking about conservatories. I wasn't clear. Sorry. When I said ,"Thanks but a lot of conservatories offer music ed. Those are not the only music colleges in the world thanks though. " I meant to say that Curtis and Juilliard arn't the only music colleges in the world.

...And you're thanking the guy that told you there is a chance you can get 30-40 bass students on a weekly basis paying you upwards of $50 and hour, saying that's the best advice you've received? I don't think anyone has that many bass students... (disclaimer: I could be totally wrong here as the internet is no place to discern tone, but I did get a sense or rudeness in the last few posts.)

I he gave the most direct advice. No rudeness from (if infact you were talking about me). I really was being direct. I don't mean to come off rude in any way.

 

[mcnaire2004]

O and GirlBass. My teacher has around 35 studends.