Bassists Are Their Own Worst Enemies

[JimmyM]

Nah. My writing style always seems to convey more tension than is actually there. But the OP seemed to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder. His post seemed to convey a bit of "I want to play what I want to play regardless of what anybody thinks." I was just laying out what I thought of it. And that, after all, is the point of these conversations, right?

That was your own misinterpretation of it, and yes, you do have the right to misinterpret stuff, I guess.

 

[NWB]

That was your own misinterpretation of it, and yes, you do have the right to misinterpret stuff, I guess.

I think that people have been conditioned to interpret things in a very polarized way these days.

Middle ground?

Isn't that some sci-fi world with hobbits and gremlins?

 

[younggun]

I think that people have been conditioned to interpret things in a very polarized way these days.

Middle ground?

Isn't that some sci-fi world with hobbits and gremlins?

I fall firmly on the side of the Hobbits! Hobbits are simple folk. Gremlins play too many notes.

 

[MisterMagician]

Jimmy, I know we've had our differences in the past, but I love you for making this thread.


No, not in that way, don't get excited.

 

[lfmn16]

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I tend to have to walk back things verbally sometimes as well. I come across sometimes as much more annoyed than I really feel.

If you ruffled feathers it's because your post makes it appear that you didn't read the original post.

Don't get me wrong here, though. I'm not telling you to start going crazy and making everything all about the bass. Everyone has to find their own voice, and if your voice is simple support and not being noticed, that's cool. Just don't let other bass players define it for you. You don't have to go unnoticed, and it can often sound really good if you don't. And as for those bass players who would like to define your role as they see fit, their role in my world is shutting the hell up

Where does this (or any place else in the original post) say wankfest, don't listen to the rest of the band, or you don't have to work out your parts, or you should draw attention to yourself all the time?

Basically what you did is make up a bunch of points which had nothing to do with the OPs point and then answer each one.

Not to speak for Jimmy, but it seems to me that he was saying each player should find his own voice and choose his own role as a bass player. I don't know why there are so many people arguing against that.

 

[Korladis]

I don't know either. I read Jimmy's OP mainly as saying to do what works for you and not hold it against others when they do what works for them.

 

[shrimpflea]

Bassists are their own worst enemies.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
I need to really get close to myself....really get inside my head.
And then when the time is right, I will attack!

 

[the Arsonaut]

It's just that back'n'forth...

fella's playing some root notes, or a simple progression
peanut gallery: "what a simpleton...who's that? adam clayton!?"

another fella kicks up a storm onstage
peanut gallery: "this woodshedder obviously knows nothing of gruv, of serving the song"

I do not introduce myself as a fellow bassist that night...

 

[Tupac]

To the people defending simplicity, what do you do when noodling in your bedroom? Really, what downside is there to learning to play Racer X in your bedroom to get your chops up? The worst thing that can happen is that you make your technique more economic and be able to play slower cleaner. God forbid you actually become great at your craft, rethink, and decide to contribute to the bass world rather than stand in the back. You can hold back in a gig, but dumbing yourself down is just laziness.

 

[shrimpflea]

To the people defending simplicity, what do you do when noodling in your bedroom? Really, what downside is there to learning to play Racer X in your bedroom to get your chops up? The worst thing that can happen is that you make your technique more economic and be able to play slower cleaner. God forbid you actually become great at your craft, rethink, and decide to contribute to the bass world rather than stand in the back. You can hold back in a gig, but dumbing yourself down is just laziness.

This is a great point......I definitely work on my chops practicing or jamming alone. Besides being good for your technique it's a lot more fun too.
With a band that's a different story for me....I play what I think is appropriate for that tune....which usually means something pretty simple..(but not always).
I often come up with pretty busy basslines on my own and then when I use them in band setting I find I have to simplify them to make it work.

 

[MisterMagician]

I would like to hear what a "busy" line sounds like to everyone here, because I think there is a loss of communication between the opinions.

I would say a player like Jamerson and the guy from The Grass Roots carry and "serve" a song better by playing as they please, rather than following the guitar like a wounded dog like most rock guys. In my opinion, here is a *wide* gap in between non-root players like Paul McCartney / John Paul Jones / Hugh McDonell and the stylings of Michael Anthony / Mike Kroeger / Lemmy.

So is "busy" determined by the amount of notes you play or the amount of different notes you play? Is "busy" when you deviate from the "lead" instrument to create interesting harmonies?


That said, I'm genuinely shocked metal guys aren't respected more around here considering how simple the typical metal bassline is. There are exceptions, but you can find a lot of: 0 0 0 3 0 0 5 [awkward pause] 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 5 5 5 5 etc. Most play fast, but there isn't much going on.

 

[Korladis]

Rather hypocritical, isn't it?

Though some metal bassists deviate quite a bit at times from what the guitarist is doing. Geezer Butler for example.

 

[azureblue]

between keeping time and grooving / pocket, get back on the porch.

 

[Aussie Player]

Geezer is a rock player. There was no such thing as the recent term "metal", when he established his style.

 

[Showdown]

I would like to hear what a "busy" line sounds like to everyone here, because I think there is a loss of communication between the opinions.

I would say a player like Jamerson and the guy from The Grass Roots carry and "serve" a song better by playing as they please, rather than following the guitar like a wounded dog like most rock guys. In my opinion, here is a *wide* gap in between non-root players like Paul McCartney / John Paul Jones / Hugh McDonell and the stylings of Michael Anthony / Mike Kroeger / Lemmy.

So is "busy" determined by the amount of notes you play or the amount of different notes you play? Is "busy" when you deviate from the "lead" instrument to create interesting harmonies?


That said, I'm genuinely shocked metal guys aren't respected more around here considering how simple the typical metal bassline is. There are exceptions, but you can find a lot of: 0 0 0 3 0 0 5 [awkward pause] 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 5 5 5 5 etc. Most play fast, but there isn't much going on.

Has anyone in this thread said good players should only play the root? I haven't seen it if they have. I have repeatedly said that you should play what works in the song, and if that is busy or if it is all on the root then that is what you should play. WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO PICK A SIDE AND ATTACK THE OTHER SIDE? Both sides are right and both sides are wrong, because the truth is that what works varies from song to song. Sometimes simple is best and sometimes complicated is best, and if you think one or the other is the only way to play you are selling yourself short.

 

[Gadgetjunky]

how many here have played without a drummer, like an acoustic duo with electric bass? I recommend it if you want to stretch you abilities and shine bright. Try it, more than once.

 

[MisterMagician]

Has anyone in this thread said good players should only play the root? I haven't seen it if they have. I have repeatedly said that you should play what works in the song, and if that is busy or if it is all on the root then that is what you should play. WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO PICK A SIDE AND ATTACK THE OTHER SIDE? Both sides are right and both sides are wrong, because the truth is that what works varies from song to song. Sometimes simple is best and sometimes complicated is best, and if you think one or the other is the only way to play you are selling yourself short.

That is an incredibly defensive post.


All I was asking is what is "busy." Not many people would consider what Sir Paul plays as complex at all, but is he considered "busy" because he doesn't follow the root?

I suppose your post answered my question unintentionally.

 

[Aussie Player]

how many here have played without a drummer, like an acoustic duo with electric bass? I recommend it if you want to stretch you abilities and shine bright. Try it, more than once.

Am currently playing this format while looking for s drummer.

 

[Gadgetjunky]

Am currently playing this format while looking for s drummer.

Do you enjoy it? Has it made you a better player? Do you get more compliments? Yes to all the above for me

 

[Korladis]

Geezer is a rock player. There was no such thing as the recent term "metal", when he established his style.

Black Sabbath is generally considered the founding band of the genre. Besides which, metal is a subset rock. And metal isn't exactly a recent term. The genre's been around for decades now. Of course the genre didn't exist when he started... his band pioneered it. But it has existed for most of his career, and his bands are generally considered to be metal bands.

I think you're probably disagreeing on whether he's a metal player or not due to a dislike of the genre, and so you don't want to consider a bassist you like to be part of that genre. I don't like most metal, either (Sturgeon's Law applies to all genres, IMO), but Geezer Butler's bands have made undeniably metal music.

Even if there was no such thing as metal when he started, much of his work falls within that genre. "Children of the Grave" is pretty clearly metal, as is much of that album. "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath," also quite clearly metal. The albums with Dio are pretty much as metal as metal gets. Heavier, louder, faster? Certainly. But quite as "metal" as those albums? Nope.

Besides which, Geezer's solo albums, which I'm kinda "meh" on due to the vocals, are very much metal albums.