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bassists who don't like jaco

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#201
Bass2x said:
Jaco didn't play on Holiday for Pans...
That album was never finished. Jaco mixed it before his death, left it at the studio and it was discovered later that the bass track was a fraud. Some obscure New York bassist fessed up about 10 years after it's Japanese release when people questioned the sloppy bass lines.
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I knew all that and didn't say that he played on it!! :hmm:

What I was saying, was that you could hardly say that Jaco was repeating himself as he got older - so you're known as a virtuoso bass player and you go and make an album of instrumental tunes for Steel Pans with no bass!!! :eek:

You may not like it or think it was any good - but you can hardly say that Jaco was just repeating his first album!! :scowl:


[PS - in fact I'm pretty sure that on both occasions - the record company wanted a repeat and were very unhappy with what Jaco produced, in that it was too far a departure from his first album!! - so WOM was delayed and held back, while his last album wasn't released :( ]
 
#202
JimK said:
I also understand the case that pre-Jaco WR was 'better' on record. Much more Wayne vs. Joe/Jaco with the Vitous/Alphonso albums.
You can never have enuff Shorter!
;)
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I think there is a case for this - but what I was saying is that I don't think you can "blame" Jaco for this alone, or simply say it was down to him joining the band...?

I think that Joe Zawinul was more and more dominating the band and Mysterious Traveller has tracks where it's all Joe multi-tracking - as he got more and better synths, he wanted to put more of this on the albums - I think this would have happened anyway - no matter who was the bass player(s).

This domination tended to sideline Wayne, as Joe seemed to be striving to play the horn section himself on polyphonic synths!! Nobody really knows and he was probably too nice a guy to say - but I'm sure this must have annoyed Shorter - who just moved out of the way and let Joe get on with it...:(
 
#203
Bruce Lindfield said:
I think there is a case for this - but what I was saying is that I don't think you can "blame" Jaco for this alone, or simply say it was down to him joining the band...?
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Mr. Lindfield's analysis provides food for thought.

A few more words about Pastorius' late work:
  • I need to hear "Holday for Pans." I have never heard any of it, with or without conterfeit bass parts.
  • His playing on Brian Melvin's Standards Zone is remarkable. Was this his final recording session?
  • Is anyone familiar with Down By Law by Deadline? This was a 1985 Bill Laswell/Phillip Wilson project. Jaco sounds like he phoned it in. Jonas Hellborg is also on it, and plays extremely well.
 
#205
RHFusillo said:
Mr. Lindfield's analysis provides food for thought.

A few more words about Pastorius' late work:
  • I need to hear "Holday for Pans." I have never heard any of it, with or without conterfeit bass parts.
  • His playing on Brian Melvin's Standards Zone is remarkable. Was this his final recording session?
  • Is anyone familiar with Down By Law by Deadline? This was a 1985 Bill Laswell/Phillip Wilson project. Jaco sounds like he phoned it in. Jonas Hellborg is also on it, and plays extremely well.
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I love Standards Zone! I think it was recorded during one of Jaco's last lucid periods before he died. It's great to hear him play through changes, and Jaco OWNs it IMHO. :bassist:
I think the Down BY Law project represents maybe somebody taking advantage of Jaco in one of his not so lucid points in life.
 
#206
dabass said:
Hi, I have a suggestion that might help you learn to "appreciate" "jaco'ian" music. First, sit down with a bass (if you are a bass player) and the "Heavy Weather" CD and "sheets" for Havona and learn the tune! Then once you have "mastered it" sit down with a fretless bass and play it in perfect tune! Then, try to imagine that you composed the music and "created the bass" lines for it!!! Then, ask any contemporary respected Jazz/Fusion player if they've heard the tune and what opinion/impact it had on them the first time they heard the tune. Then send me an e-mail and let me know what you think!! Then I can suggest at least 20+other tunes that Jaco composed or contributed to that will blow you away!!!! Not everyone has to like "his music", but not to appreciate or respect Jaco as a musician/bassist is a joke!!! Especially, if your a bass player!!!

Good luck!!
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You're not a Jaco fan, by chance?
 
#207
Bass2x said:
"Holiday for Pans engineer Peter Yianilos confirms that Jaco himself never played any bass parts on any of the 13 2-inch master tapes."
- Bill Milkowski, Jaco biogropher
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But who cares?

It was Jaco's music, he wrote it all - why does it matter whether or not it had a bass part - there's no bass on "Forgotten Love" on the first album ...:hmm:

The point is that Jaco was developing and moving on - OK we might not like it as much as his earlier stuff - but he certainly wasn't just repeating himself - he was developing as a composer - which was always the thing about Jaco's playing.

So in the video he made, he explains to Jerry how note choice is what defines his sound - he was a composer first who happened to play electric bass. :)
 
#209
Jaco with Joni Mitchell really really REALLY floats my boat... :) far more so than Weather Report or any of his solo things... Shadows and Light is a must for anyone interested in hearing inventive interplay between bass & vocals, great grooves, impeccable timing, taste, great note choice & humour

for fun I transcribed 'In France They Kiss on Main Street' from Joni's 'Shadows and Light' for my little website, and the thing that struck me the most, aside from his tone & fantastic note choice (it's a lesson on how to make a line from mostly arpeggiated figures still sound fresh and original), was his sense of rhythm.... the 16th note pulse is very very solid and the little ghost notes that pepper the piece really make it an example of solid work... it's a subtle yet authoritative showcase of his strengths...

I don't really like 'Jaco-ian' music either if that means 'jazz rock noodlings' but there's more to Jaco than that
 
#212
Bruce Lindfield said:
But it's still true that Jaco wrote all this stuff - why does it matter if it had a bass line or not? :hmm:
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For two reasons; First, a poster said it was an urban legend that Jaco did not play on HFP and second, there is a bass track, and it's not Jaco as one would assume on a Jaco record.
 
#213
OK, points and counter points AND counter counter points are made....


I think it's time to bury this one and move on.


Good thread guys.... I'd suggest a post in "Recordings" if the "composer" Jaco needs discussing. IMO as well, that was one of his major strengths.
 
#216
No I don't consider this a 'shredding song' - that's probably the last thing Bach had in mind when he wrote it - did the term shredding - or the implication of its meaning - even exist when Bach was alive? Anyway it may be fast but it's extremely musical and the way Jaco plays it is stunning because of the dynamic control over the shape of the piece (the fact he plays it so quietly makes the performance even better) - but I'm sure there must also be similarly hard / challenging bass pieces - or the other obvious Bach compositions to mention are his cello suites - which start simple and get more and more complex - shredding has nothing to do with this.

M
 
#217
it may or may not be 'shredding' but that word conjures up images of pointy-headstocked 80's poodle-haired scalloped-necked fretwanker guitarists, and somehow not quite appropriate for a serious musician :)

it's like calling Beethoven's music 'kick ass' or calling Jesus's loaves & fishes routine 'a cool stunt' :)
 
#219
Mike Flynn said:
No I don't consider this a 'shredding song' - that's probably the last thing Bach had in mind when he wrote it - did the term shredding - or the implication of its meaning - even exist when Bach was alive? Anyway it may be fast but it's extremely musical and the way Jaco plays it is stunning because of the dynamic control over the shape of the piece (the fact he plays it so quietly makes the performance even better) - but I'm sure there must also be similarly hard / challenging bass pieces - or the other obvious Bach compositions to mention are his cello suites - which start simple and get more and more complex - shredding has nothing to do with this.

M
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Agree 100% !!

I think the point is that what people get out of music, often says more about them as listeners - their ear, their experience, how much they know about music, its history etc.

So one person hears Jaco's playing and knows about Bach, Stravinsky, Jazz forms and theory , old school R&B etc etc - and that person gets a lot out of it!! :)

Another person hears the same thing - "it's just shredding"! :p
 
#220
cowsgomoo said:
it may or may not be 'shredding' but that word conjures up images of pointy-headstocked 80's poodle-haired scalloped-necked fretwanker guitarists, and somehow not quite appropriate for a serious musician :)
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The ignorance you demonstrate when imparting your perception of shred is shocking. :rollno:

To be a shredder, and indeed, to be a good shredder, an advanced knowledge of music theory* is required, as well as a flair for technical playing skills. Not serious musicians you say?

*apart from Yngwie, he's done alright with the Harmonic Minor scale!

(thats a joke, I know Yngwie is rather good with his theory, it's his phrasing thats limited!)
 
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