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Bassists with music degrees?

#42
It sure didn't hurt. Music school helped me to understand how music "works" fundamentally, in a way that I doubt I would have ever been able to do on my own - mostly in regards to understanding music theory and the invaluable ear training I got. But I think the drive to keep learning new music, and to continuously work on getting new techniques and concepts down are the most important things for my musicianship. My music schooling was almost 20 years ago, so if that's what defined me as a musician, I'd be long stale by now. School was really just a solid foundation, but I've built the entire "house" on top of it since then (and hopefully I'll always keep adding on to it). That said, I think without my education, my foundation would have had a few cracks in it, and I'm glad I put the time in way back then to prevent that.
 
#45
My parents can't figure out why I was involved in a (non-music) postgraduate program. "You don't need it to get a better paying job, some of your current workmates don't even have a degree, we don't understand why you bothered to put years into it", they would say. It took me a while to realize that, no matter how much time, patience and care I took in explaining my decision, they might not ever be able to get it as they have not been through it, even though they are both university graduates. A bit crude of me to say (and unfair to my parents), but it did feel like explaining sex to a virgin.

I figure it's the same with most endeavors: if one hasn't gone through it, one might not necessarily "get" its values.

Of course, I could totally be wrong :roflmao:
 
#46
fdeck said:
Thanks to my kids being involved in music, and playing music myself, I know a lot of musicians with and without degrees. And people know that I play in decent bands without having a degree myself, so they're surprised when I tell them that I think the degree is valuable.

Taking 8 years of classical lessons on cello, and playing bass for 40 years, has taught me a few things. I can hold my own on the bandstand, and play gigs with professional bands. But today, the upright players who are above me in the local pecking order, all have degrees. "Kids" who have been playing seriously for maybe 6-8 years, but have spent that time in focused study, can run circles around me technically. They can also compose, arrange, teach, and so forth. They are exposed to a larger variety of new ideas in the academic setting. Meanwhile, the value of my knowledge, such as the jazz "standards," is fading into the past, and is mainly relegated to gigs playing background music. I think this is a good generalization of the difference between degree and non-degree musicians in my locale.

With that said, I have no regrets. I've got a degree in something else, that has led to a rewarding career in its own right. And a music degree is still a license to struggle -- the job situation is known to be pretty bleak. A large fraction of music majors at the nearby university, have a second major in something that could help them make ends meet, such as math, computer science, and so forth. A lot of the kids who were the top music students in high school were also quite competitive in a variety of subjects, and came from supportive families.

Incidentally, if you go to a web forum for computer programmers and ask if the computer science degree has made them a better programmer, you will get a range of answers.
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Long winded
 
#47
Any life experience we have makes us different than we were. We have no way of knowing if we are better or worse because of them...only different.
I got a degree in music education in 1981 and have been a HS band director ever since. That gave me a set of opportunities that enabled me to stay active in music, which helped me improve as a player. However, if I had skipped school and went on the road with a band that would have also help me improve as a player.
 
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#48
IamGroot said:
Has your music degree made you a better bassist/musician?
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No degree, however, two years of music theory for the most part gave me nomenclature for what I already knew which has been a valuable time saving tool, and probably the most valuable, the underpinnings of musical logic. Those and 50+ years of practical application should give me more degrees than a thermostat.
 
#50
Very insightful thread.

I personally had a choice to pursue music or engineering and I chose engineering. Everyday I second guess my choice. I have no doubt I would be a much better player if I went to school for it...but the potential for failure just seemed too high. So now I'm relegated to independent study when my schedule allows. Speaking of which, does anyone know any contemporary jazz teachers in the Tri State area that is available for lessons? I'm in desperate need to break my current plateau.
 
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#52
I didn't get a music degree, but took all of the "non major" music classes I could; theory, jazz theory, composition, sight singing, etc.. At that time, I was already gigging pretty heavily and knew "enough to be dangerous," but having the academic classes better explain what I was already doing was a great benefit. Instead of playing tri-tone subs over changes by accident (prior to classes), having that knowledge allowed me to play things intentionally and more consistently.
 
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#53
I started violin training at the age of 4.

Did very well on it till the mid 60's when the musical environment changed. So I taught myself guitar and played guitar through high school.

Couldn't figure out what I wanted to do as a career, so Mom and Dad said go to music school. I did.

The classical theory, jazz theory, ear training, and so on, pretty much destroyed the "mojo" that I had learned by self teaching, but gave me a much larger musical foundation to build off of. I finished my 4 year degree.

So now over the years I have blended what I have learned to be the musician I am today.
From my intro to music as a child and teen, to the theoretical foundation set by my 4 years degree, to my extensive playing with many different groups though the years. I now play multiple instruments, a couple of them well, with a focus on fretless bass

Everything that I have done to advance my music has helped!
 
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#54
TheLowDown33 said:
Everyday I second guess my choice. I have no doubt I would be a much better player if I went to school for it...but the potential for failure just seemed too high. So now I'm relegated to independent study when my schedule allows.
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I copped flack from two high school buddies for not starting a music degree with them about twenty years ago. One of them went to become a respected, sought-after musician, the other one switched to engineering. There are other professional, degreed musicians that I know who are trying to break into software. Please don't second guess your choice. I have a feeling that a lot of people are in the same "what would have happened if I did the other thing" boat. Relegated to independent study when your schedule allows doesn't sound like a bad place to be at :)
 
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#55
Even though I didn't graduate I have technically enough years of college under my belt to have a music degree lol. I was in the music ed program and my major instrument was actually trombone, but I played bass in virtually every jazz ensemble/combo or theater pit that was available to me. I was also accepted to a major conservatory's jazz bass program but decided not to attend due to $ reasons. Having said all that, I can definitely agree that college gave me a huge leg up, with music theory, aural training, composition and arranging being the most helpful along with just taking every playing opportunity I could.
 
#56
teh-slb said:
I copped flack from two high school buddies for not starting a music degree with them about twenty years ago. One of them went to become a respected, sought-after musician, the other one switched to engineering. There are other professional, degreed musicians that I know who are trying to break into software. Please don't second guess your choice. I have a feeling that a lot of people are in the same "what would have happened if I did the other thing" boat. Relegated to independent study when your schedule allows doesn't sound like a bad place to be at :)
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Very true. It's always easy to see the greener grass. I just wish I had more time to do more academic music outside of work. Right now, I can either play out, or "study" but doing both is just dividing an already limited resource lol. On the bright side, I can pretty much afford any gear I want!
 
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#57
Bass'd on a true story said:
People are really letting their egos get involved in answering this. I don't have a music degree. I gig with a lot of people that do have music degrees.

Let's put it this way -

Not all of the great players that I know have degrees.
0 of the players I know who have degrees are terrible.
I know terrible players who have been playing a long time.

So I guess the point is, I don't think the degree makes you an incredible player. But I do think that there are very few awful musicians who have degrees. The degree is by no means an indication of excellence, but I do think that it's an indication of competence.
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I agree with this except that I do know of one guy who has a degree in music and is just awful. He can finger notes in all the right places but has zero ear for making notes sing or for composing a really good lead part on his guitar. However, I have friends and colleagues from various bands I've been in who teach music at advanced levels, and who are quite accomplished players who know so much more than I know. I also knew and worked with a guy who studied privately with a student of Segovia and he mentored me during my early years and taught me much of what I needed to know, in a practical sense, on the fly.

So I also do not have a degree and have picked up most of what I know by learning from other musicians who were conventionally schooled in one way or another.

At this stage in my life, I regret not doing more formal study because I really think it would have led me to a different career path. If I were starting out now, I absolutely would study. There's nothing that's been asked of me that I couldn't figure out, as a gigging player, but study would have opened doors to an academic career or a career in composition or production at a much higher level. It's where I should have ended up, but didn't, because I didn't have the understanding when I was young of how to get there. I just wanted to play some music and have some fun.
 
#59
IamGroot said:
Examples of music degrees in the US are Bachelors or equivalent or higher degrees from a college, conservatory, or music school.
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I may have worded my question badly. For example, I study musicology. Thus I learn a lot about music history, compositional approaches, different schools of music analysis, etc. But this knowledge is purely theoretical and I'm not sure a BA in that field is what would fall under a music degree.

But long story short - yes, it has helped me tremendously. But at the same time, it's wasted on the music I actually play - except my original band maybe which is my little sandbox.
 
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