BECAUSE THERE IS NO PA!!!

[zachoff]

Also, I don't belive for one minute the guys saying that they would prefer playing without a P.A., at ground level, to 20 people over doing the "big gigs"

Very true, but IME a club has either no PA at all, a PA for vocals only, or a sweet ass PA that's meant to amplify every instrument in the band. I'm always super stoked to play the latter & even then will be mic'd. It's the two former situations where I'm glad to have headroom and a big rig apart from the fact that I love the tone.

 

[Implosion]

Yeah, but I'll bet some of the people who posted here still think their rig is louder than that.

I really do not know why anyone is having a problem understanding how freaking loud a PA can be compared to a stage bass rig.

I don't believe that anyone is saying that their rig is louder than a proper PA system (allthough I haven't read the whole thread).

And that was the OP's point. He needs a big rig BECAUSE THERE IS NO PA!!! (his words, not mine). All I mention is to get a PA then and be done with it...and all the big rig lovers jump all over me like I don't have a clue what loud is.

But the OP's situation doesn't make it possible to use PA. I'm sure that if they could, then they would. What would you do if you were told that you could use PA only for vocals? Turn the gig down? Remember that there is no money envolved in these gigs.

Also, I don't belive for one minute the guys saying that they would prefer playing without a P.A., at ground level, to 20 people over doing the "big gigs"

Of course everyone would like to have a proper PA support and play the music that they would like to play, but even with PA there would still be 20 people in the audience. It's just our niche of music, there are very limited chances of doing "big gigs".

 

[D.M.N.]

medium sized rig - a 750 watt rms amp + a GOOD QUALITY 410 cab or 2x15 rig would do it.

And for that, you don't need a big rig (i.e. bigger than a 410 or 215). If the drummer is being amplified so that ALL his or her drums can be heard, then that PA should be able to handle your bass, too. So, again, you don't NEED a big rig.

I guess I have to reevaluate what I consider a big rig. A 48"x30"x15" 2x15 always seemed pretty big to me........guess I need some more 15s.........and I thought 300w of 6550s was pretty good.......

 

[Sundogue]

But the OP's situation doesn't make it possible to use PA. I'm sure that if they could, then they would. What would you do if you were told that you could use PA only for vocals? Turn the gig down? Remember that there is no money envolved in these gigs.

I'd turn the gig down before they even finished their sentence. We have turned down gigs for smaller reasons than that.

And for no money? Ha! The only gig I'll play for free is a benefit for a good cause. And the whole idea of playing for exposure is a scam. All it exposes is the naivety of the band accepting it.

Kind of ironic that the type of music being discussed is supposed to be so "rawking" (and by definition, so anti-establishment) yet so many bands of these genres are bending over and taking it for their "love" of it. I swear some of you wouldn't know what rock music is all about if you watched a documentary on it. F the rules, you know? Start making your own instead of accepting things the way they are if you don't like it. Then again if you ain't got what it takes to do that, then keep on "rawkin'" to what's allowed.

I never had a bar owner tell my band to turn down or not allow us to use our own PA. He'd be a stupid business man to do that when he's making a killing on the crowd we bring in. Of course if you guys are just playing to people who are underage or too poor to spend money on drinks then I guess all your clout is out the window. You know what I call playing in a place too small for a PA that doesn't pay you anything? Rehearsal.

 

[dbase]

I guess I'm from the old school... The PA was for voices only because the singers didnt have amplification. The rest of the band used their own amps, the drummer didnt need one. Everone had their own unique sound eminating from where they stood on the stage.

 

[father of fires]

I'd turn the gig down before they even finished their sentence. We have turned down gigs for smaller reasons than that.

And for no money? Ha! The only gig I'll play for free is a benefit for a good cause. And the whole idea of playing for exposure is a scam. All it exposes is the naivety of the band accepting it.

Kind of ironic that the type of music being discussed is supposed to be so "rawking" (and by definition, so anti-establishment) yet so many bands of these genres are bending over and taking it for their "love" of it. I swear some of you wouldn't know what rock music is all about if you watched a documentary on it. F the rules, you know? Start making your own instead of accepting things the way they are, if you don't like it.

But, we do like it. That's why we play for no money with no FOH. I personally don't play these types of gigs for exposure. I get to play with my friends and we get to play shows with bands we respect. That's enough for me. I guess I'm the only one here that doesn't want to "make it".

 

[Implosion]

I'd turn the gig down before they even finished their sentence. We have turned down gigs for smaller reasons than that.

And for no money? Ha! The only gig I'll play for free is a benefit for a good cause. And the whole idea of playing for exposure is a scam. All it exposes is the naivety of the band accepting it.

Kind of ironic that the type of music being discussed is supposed to be so "rawking" (and by definition, so anti-establishment) yet so many bands of these genres are bending over and taking it for their "love" of it. I swear some of you wouldn't know what rock music is all about if you watched a documentary on it.

Your post somewhat verifies what I was thinking. It's not about exposure, it's not about money and it's not bending over an taking it. I can say that "you wouldn't know what punk/metal music is all about if you watched a documentary on it."

People playing this sort of music know that there is no money involved even if you "make it". The bands that have made it (as in tour the US & Europe) are lucky if they break even after the tour. Some bands have given up touring "big time" because it's too expensive for them and they can't hold steady jobs because of touring.


On a side note: I myself have never played out without PA support, but I can relate to the OP.

 

[bolt_thrower]

Your post somewhat verifies what I was thinking. It's not about exposure, it's not about money and it's not bending over an taking it. I can say that "you wouldn't know what punk/metal music is all about if you watched a documentary on it."

People playing this sort of music know that there is no money involved even if you "make it". The bands that have made it (as in tour the US & Europe) are lucky if they break even after the tour. Some bands have given up touring "big time" because it's too expensive for them and they can't hold steady jobs because of touring.

Exactly!

EDIT: Father of fires, I dig your setup. Nice 370!

 

[Sundogue]

But, we do like it. That's why we play for no money with no FOH. I personally don't play these types of gigs for exposure. I get to play with my friends and we get to play shows with bands we respect. That's enough for me. I guess I'm the only one here that doesn't want to "make it".

I play for no money all the time. It's rehearsal. I've been so far down this path that I don't plan on "making it" either. I do it strictly for the love of it.

We have a joke about it. We play for free, we just get paid to haul our gear. And I sure as hell ain't doing that for free anymore.

 

[jnewmark]

Your post somewhat verifies what I was thinking. It's not about exposure, it's not about money and it's not bending over an taking it. I can say that "you wouldn't know what punk/metal music is all about if you watched a documentary on it."

People playing this sort of music know that there is no money involved even if you "make it". The bands that have made it (as in tour the US & Europe) are lucky if they break even after the tour. Some bands have given up touring "big time" because it's too expensive for them and they can't hold steady jobs because of touring.


On a side note: I myself have never played out without PA support, but I can relate to the OP.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm kinda curious . These places that you play where you make little or no money from your performance, are tiny, and sometimes have audiences of 20 people, how do they stay in business ?

 

[Sundogue]

Your post somewhat verifies what I was thinking. It's not about exposure, it's not about money and it's not bending over an taking it. I can say that "you wouldn't know what punk/metal music is all about if you watched a documentary on it."

People playing this sort of music know that there is no money involved even if you "make it". The bands that have made it (as in tour the US & Europe) are lucky if they break even after the tour. Some bands have given up touring "big time" because it's too expensive for them and they can't hold steady jobs because of touring.


On a side note: I myself have never played out without PA support, but I can relate to the OP.

And your post verifies what I was thinking too. There's no money in the music you play. LOUD? Your post speaks volumes.

I remember playing loud music that annoyed my parents and I didn't make any money at it then either. And I get where you are coming from. I still get together occasionally with fellow musicians I respect and jam for no pay. But it sure ain't at a place that is profiting off my love for music.

Some people go fishing, some sit on the couch and watch sports. And some get together and just play music. That's cool with me.

This thread has taken twists and turns for sure, but it's becoming clear why the OP and others need big rigs. But it isn't because of a lack of PA (as the OP insisted was the reason). Because if it was, a PA would solve the issue.

 

[father of fires]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm kinda curious . These places that you play where you make little or no money from your performance, are tiny, and sometimes have audiences of 20 people, how do they stay in business ?

Some are art collectives that volunteer they're time to support music. Some are dive bars owned by people who love music. These places don't make much more than they need to stay afloat.

It's a different world when the club your playing doesn't need to make $20,000 on a Friday night to stay in business.

 

[father of fires]

And your post verifies what I was thinking too. There's no money in the music you play. LOUD? Your post speaks volumes.

I remember playing loud music that annoyed my parents and I didn't make any money at it then either. And I get where you are coming from. I still get together occasionally with fellow musicians I respect and jam for no pay. But it sure ain't at a place that is profiting off my love for music.

Some people go fishing, some sit on the couch and watch sports. And some get together and just play music. That's cool with me.

This thread has taken twists and turns for sure, but it's becoming clear why the OP and others need big rigs. But it isn't because of a lack of PA (as the OP insisted was the reason). Because if it was, a PA would solve the issue.

A PA would totally solve the "BIG RIG" issue but, I find it bizarre that I have to keep repeating why that isn't an option for some gigs.

 

[Sundogue]

Some are art collectives that volunteer they're time to support music. Some are dive bars owned by people who love music. These places don't make much more than they need to stay afloat.

It's a different world when the club your playing doesn't need to make $20,000 on a Friday night to stay in business.

Wouldn't it just be easier to invite the crowd of 20 people to your rehearsal space?

I mean, since the places you play are so small, don't require a PA and you practice as loud anyway? From the sounds of it, it isn't like a real gig anyway. Most of the time your not setting much gear up, not getting paid, only a handful of people show up and your only playing 4 or five songs per band.

Sounds more like rehearsal than gigging. In fact it is exactly like our rehearsal last night (only we played about twenty songs). And there weren't 20 people there. It was still a good time nonetheless. It would seem to make more sense to invite those people to your rehearsal space.

 

[Implosion]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm kinda curious . These places that you play where you make little or no money from your performance, are tiny, and sometimes have audiences of 20 people, how do they stay in business ?

My experience isn't from the same field as the OP's, but I would guess they are week nights and the money is made during the weekend nights.

And your post verifies what I was thinking too. There's no money in the music you play. LOUD? Your post speaks volumes.

The money isn't dependent on the LOUD-factor. There just aren't that many people that enjoy the type of music.

I remember playing loud music that annoyed my parents and I didn't make any money at it then either. And I get where you are coming from. I still get together occasionally with fellow musicians I respect and jam for no pay. But it sure ain't at a place that is profiting off my love for music.

And I play loud music that annoys my offspring. Go figure. As for the profit part, we consider it "volunteer work". Some people volunteer to help the people in need, we volunteer to keep the "scene" alive. A hobby, no more.

This thread has taken twists and turns for sure, but it's becoming clear why the OP and others need big rigs. But it isn't because of a lack of PA (as the OP insisted was the reason). Because if it was, a PA would solve the issue.

PA would solve the situation, but because of the "performance venues" (could be anything) and other factors involved in the gig situation there might not be a chance for the OP to use PA. And turning down a gig is not a viable option.

 

[father of fires]

Wouldn't it just be easier to invite the crowd of 20 people to your rehearsal space?

I mean, since the places you play are so small, don't require a PA and you practice as loud anyway? From the sounds of it, it isn't like a real gig anyway. Most of the time your not setting much gear up, not getting paid, only a handful of people show up and your only playing 4 or five songs per band.

Sounds more like rehearsal than gigging. In fact it is exactly like our rehearsal last night (only we played about twenty songs). And there weren't 20 people there. It was still a good time nonetheless. It would seem to make more sense to invite those people to your rehearsal space.

Done that before. One of the practice studios in Baltimore has a big room you can rent for such a thing. I mostly support touring bands though which DO need to make a little cash, sell some merch, etc. For them, playing at an established club with a built in audience can help them out tremendously.

And before you ask, "no!" most touring bands I have played with do not carry a PA. That is not feasible for them either. Now some bands did have enough amps that they could have traded in for a PA like someone suggested. I will not deny that amp worshipers like to play LOUD!!!! But, I don't see any of the clubs I play taking kindly to some prima donnas bringing their own PA.

 

[Sundogue]

A PA would totally solve the "BIG RIG" issue but, I find it bizarre that I have to keep repeating why that isn't an option for some gigs.

I completely understand now. I really do. Very informative thread.

 

[Implosion]

Wouldn't it just be easier to invite the crowd of 20 people to your rehearsal space?

I mean, since the places you play are so small, don't require a PA and you practice as loud anyway? From the sounds of it, it isn't like a real gig anyway. Most of the time your not setting much gear up, not getting paid, only a handful of people show up and your only playing 4 or five songs per band.

Sounds more like rehearsal than gigging. In fact it is exactly like our rehearsal last night (only we played about twenty songs). And there weren't 20 people there. It was still a good time nonetheless. It would seem to make more sense to invite those people to your rehearsal space.

I believe it's more in-between 20-50 people in the audience and weekend warrior gigs out of town. Kind a hard to arrange in your rehearsal place, wouldn't you say.

 

[Sundogue]

I believe it's more in-between 20-50 people in the audience and weekend warrior gigs out of town. Kind a hard to arrange in your rehearsal place, wouldn't you say.

Twenty people would crowd our rehearsal space and no way 50 would fit at all. So I can understand moving rehearsal to another location to accommodate.

I gotta say, this thread has been enlightening. All this time I thought the big rigs were needed because I misunderstood and thought you guys were in gigging bands. I wouldn't bother buying a PA and hauling it around just to play a handful of songs to an almost non-existent crowd. But then again, I won't drive the 30 miles one way to my drummer's house just to rehearse a handful of songs either.

 

[father of fires]

I remember Judas Priest played a decent club that had a kick ass sound system. I didn't go but, a buddy of mine worked there that night. They built the stage out 10' and brought their own system. Now they were obviously serious about their sound and I heard the show kicked ass but, they royally pissed off the people working the club. But you know what? That was Judas f'n Priest. They can do that ****. The rest of us...not so much.