This is known as LSD, or Lead Singer's Disease. This is often cured with a simple band meeting, but sometimes it can be fatal, resulting in the need to procure a new singer.
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BECAUSE THERE IS NO PA!!!
- Thread starter father of fires
- Start date
This is known as LSD, or Lead Singer's Disease. This is often cured with a simple band meeting, but sometimes it can be fatal, resulting in the need to procure a new singer.
NONE of the local venues where I live have PA support at all. This is where my issues with whether to upgrade the rig or the PA come from. So for all of you playing in venues with PAs, know that you should feel lucky. Living in this small town means you'd better have a good setup of your own.
We hire the job out to a guy with a PA.
Ultimately if you don't have someone out front who is at least as good as you are on your instruments it can be bad.
Who adjusts the PA when the room fills up? Who adjusts the PA when the dance floor fills up? Who does those tweaks when the drummer sings lead on that quiet ballad? When the acoustic guitar comes out? Etc. etc.
Why is it your responsibility? You care more about the overall sound of the band than everyone else?
I would take a pay cut to not have to shlepp, maintenance, tear up and tear down, and field the complaints. The band can pitch in without pitching into to own a PA. Plus you get someone to run it!
To each his own. I've done it both ways.
One day you'll be called to play bass in a band. You'll be called because you show up on time, with professional reliable gear, with reliable transportation, not high or drunk, know your material, play your a$$ off, don't bring drama, and be a flexible person. It feels really nice.
One day you'll be called to play bass in a band.....
My band goes through the extra trouble of setting up a sub component to our P.A. for the kick drum in addition to bass.
A kick drum that thumps you in the chest on the far end of the dance floor is hard to beat. Transforms a band into another thing altogether IMHO.
Chef
In Memoriam
We carry two Bose Stick/sub combos, and a mackie 12 channel board.
The Bose stuff goes up and down in about 60 seconds per side, goes plenty loud enough for us and our material and if you place them well does double duty as monitors with no issues.
We're not a Mega Loud band, and we don't need uber crushing bass out of the PA-though it does carry piano and kick drum.
Guitar and bass rigs carry the room.
In both bands I work with, we're all older guys, respectful of each others volume, room dynamics, etc.
We set the PA and mostly mix vocals ''by proximity to the mic.''
This wouldn't work for everyone, especially if you're not a good listener.
In most cases, for me, 500 watts and 212's is puh-lenty of bass rig for me.
The Bose stuff goes up and down in about 60 seconds per side, goes plenty loud enough for us and our material and if you place them well does double duty as monitors with no issues.
We're not a Mega Loud band, and we don't need uber crushing bass out of the PA-though it does carry piano and kick drum.
Guitar and bass rigs carry the room.
In both bands I work with, we're all older guys, respectful of each others volume, room dynamics, etc.
We set the PA and mostly mix vocals ''by proximity to the mic.''
This wouldn't work for everyone, especially if you're not a good listener.
In most cases, for me, 500 watts and 212's is puh-lenty of bass rig for me.
electracoyote said:
+1 the sub makes the difference between a true pro group and the rest. At least for the rock / dance stuff my bands do. The bars can tell a difference right away when the dance floor starts up during the first set instead of the end of the night after the drinks are consumed by those who stuck around. When they can feel the Kick drum and the bass guitar gets pumped through the mains they can't help but move their heads and shake their booty! LOL.
This^^as something that hasn't been mentioned yet. Mixing by proximity to the mic. Folks who know how to work a mic can do this.
I set my mic the same as the frontman's and "mix myself" that way. Usually by backing off just enoigh to put myself slightly behind him doing back up. Or getting on it for parts that need that.
I also play a trick on my guitar player. He knows about this trick and is cool with it. He's a little soft spoken, but also doesn't always get up on the mic like he should to project himself out there. So, his channel gets a mid bump, and gets its level set a notch or two higher than ours. This is needed to get his voice out there. It's not over bearing, but required or he'd be buried.
I then turn him a notch or two down from the rest of us in the monitors. This makes him get up on the mic to hear himself, and thus project well, putting his vocal right where it needs to be out front.
Chef
In Memoriam
Ah: that' is tricksy
I learned "mixing by proximity" long ago, playing upright, in bluegrass bands.
The hard core guys use one omni directional mic, stand in a circle around it, and everyone moves in and out to mix vocals, and solos, and etc.
It's another trick yet to step in and out while playing your DB.....
I learned "mixing by proximity" long ago, playing upright, in bluegrass bands.
The hard core guys use one omni directional mic, stand in a circle around it, and everyone moves in and out to mix vocals, and solos, and etc.
It's another trick yet to step in and out while playing your DB.....
Chef said:Ah: that' is tricksy
I learned "mixing by proximity" long ago, playing upright, in bluegrass bands.
The hard core guys use one omni directional mic, stand in a circle around it, and everyone moves in and out to mix vocals, and solos, and etc.
It's another trick yet to step in and out while playing your DB.....
Sounds wild! I never heard of that before. Cool.
Musicians have been successfully balancing themselves for thousands and thousands of years. When they couldn't they hired a conductor. If more of us learned and retained this skill we couldn't blame sound guys so much.
That's how the really old recordings used to me made. Take a step forward when it's your turn to lead, then take a step back. Next lead part does the same, etc.
All live, all at once, no such thing as overdubs, punch in's, etc.
I still like live recordings because that's what the band actually played together. Regardless of recording quality or doing the song different than the studio record. No playing the same part 35 times and then editing bits of that together....just play.
It's cool some "hardcore bluegrassers" are still doing things the old way. Newer doesn't always mean better, IMO.
All live, all at once, no such thing as overdubs, punch in's, etc.
I still like live recordings because that's what the band actually played together. Regardless of recording quality or doing the song different than the studio record. No playing the same part 35 times and then editing bits of that together....just play.
It's cool some "hardcore bluegrassers" are still doing things the old way. Newer doesn't always mean better, IMO.
One of the most ridiculous situations I've ever heard of.
If it ever happens again, set the amps back (especially the bass rig) or move the drummer forward so he can at least hear something besides a rumble.
I'd also let the festival promoter know that the PA had a major deficiency.
Stuff like that I sometimes break apart my rig if needed and give the drummer his own cab.
Monitors? It's always amazing when I play a show that has them. Such magical gigs are few and far between.
Chef
In Memoriam
The Bose stick/sub combos we use work pretty well as monitors as well as mains, given proper placement.
I don't consider myself an "amp worshiper". I find that term a little offensive. I carry my normal rig as I consider my amplifier system to be as much a part of "my sound" as my bass is. It will carry a full house if needs must.
Most guitar players also consider their amps as part of the total picture. Many would carry their amps to a jam without a second thought. Talk to them about going direct into the board and they'll look at you like you have gone nuts. Using a microphone on a guitar amp is considered "normal practice". Why is it that bassists have to go direct???
Don't take offense. The phrase is used to describe loud rock bands with far too many big tube amps on stage.
I like/admire your setup. You need a ton of power to push those Acme's.
Chef
In Memoriam
"have to go direct" vs mic the cab
I don't ever feel I "have to go direct" when working a venue with FOH and a sound guy.
If you ask nicely, most of them will gladly try what you ask for.
Some will even take a DI and a mic and blend them if you ask nice and buy them an adult beverage.
fwiw: I like the DI's on my amps, so, fine with me.
I don't ever feel I "have to go direct" when working a venue with FOH and a sound guy.
If you ask nicely, most of them will gladly try what you ask for.
Some will even take a DI and a mic and blend them if you ask nice and buy them an adult beverage.
fwiw: I like the DI's on my amps, so, fine with me.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
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- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Going direct doesn't have to be a punishment.
As long as you have a DI that you like the sound of and assuming that your cabs aren't a huge color factor in your end tone. Just get a DI that you really like the sound of, or make sure your amp/setup can send a DI after the EQ/effects if that's what you need.
I understand that no one wants to lose control over their tone out front, but it doesn't have to kill the gig for you if you're smart about it. I WISH I didn't have to carry a huge amp and cab setup to make sure I'm heard properly, but I do and I have the best setup I can for doing so.
As long as you have a DI that you like the sound of and assuming that your cabs aren't a huge color factor in your end tone. Just get a DI that you really like the sound of, or make sure your amp/setup can send a DI after the EQ/effects if that's what you need.
I understand that no one wants to lose control over their tone out front, but it doesn't have to kill the gig for you if you're smart about it. I WISH I didn't have to carry a huge amp and cab setup to make sure I'm heard properly, but I do and I have the best setup I can for doing so.
