Been playing for 12 years - should I quit?

[rmayer]

Tone is an endless quest. Trying to get Geddy's sound would require Geddy's sound man.
I always seek out a good teacher when I'm stuck on something.
They can help out immensely in a few lessons.
Several years ago I was a 50 year old bass player taking
lessons from a 21 year old bass teacher. It worked.

Agreed. Also, trying to get Geddy’s tone would take his fanatical devotion to the bass since he was possibly 13 or 14 years old.

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks for the responses!



In response to 2, the pain came in my elbow and wrist rather than the thumb. I think it is a result of my contorting my arm to a certain degree to get a "proper" fretting hand angle all the way out there.

I guess I should also note that I was already playing 1-2-4 when possible for years where the frets were further apart due to difficulty with one finger per fret.

If you are having problems with the wrist on your fretting hand, I would try raising the bass a bit. This should allow you to straighten out your wrist a bit.

Also keep in mind that an unusually long reach to the nut can contribute to arm, hand, and wrist pain. The reach is related to the scale of the bass, but bridge placement on the bass's body is also a significant factor.

Nothing wrong with trying a short scale bass, but some can be a bit less focused sounding, and they are also more prone to problems with inharmonicity. I believe my shortest scale bass is an old headless Washburn Bantam, and it sounds surprisingly good.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

If you want to try short scale first, just detune your 34" scale bass a whole step and put a capo at the second fret. The dots are obviously off, but you now have a 30" scale bass to try cheaply.

 

[johnnynitro]

To Me My Bass always sounds like crap standing next to it. But to others I have "The Sound or The Tone". To me If my tone sounds good (standing next to it) It's sucking beyond my ears.

 

[Zoffy]

Chasing tone is a rabbit hole in and of itself. I used to go see The Dead a lot. There were some shows that Phil spent almost the whole night turning knobs and flipping switches on his racks; before songs and even during songs, and everything just sounded the same. So many variables go into what sounds are coming out of an instrument. Just because you don't sound like "Bassist X" is no reason to stop.

 

[JimmyM]

I've heard everything you've done but the one thing that could truly make a difference...getting lessons from a quality instructor based in jazz.

 

[juggahnaught]

Don't quit!

(Unless you really want to quit. But don't quit!)

I can relate to what you're talking about. I hear other people play and I don't hear the deficiencies that I have in my playing coming from them. I'm actually the opposite of you - I'm kind of learning to darken my tone because my bass is pretty bright be default, lots of string noise and harmonics. (And I've got to play a reggae gig in August, so I'm looking into thumbstyle and palm muting to get a better reggae tone for the songs we're going to play.)

I also hear you on the pick thing. Depending on how you play, the angle of the bass will be different. (Most people on here advocate the Carole Kaye method of playing - from the bridge and elbow - and some people apply it blindly. The technique makes sense, but it does requlre a specific positioning of the bass. it's something that I wouldn't be able to do while keeping my fretting hand integrity, so when I play with a pick, I specifically do not play like she does. People might have opinions on this, but I think you have to do what works for you, not what works for her.)

It's an endless journey. Don't feel too discouraged. There are things that you may be able to do.

1. You play fingerstyle. People with naturally brighter tones may be favoring the tips of their fingers instead of the pad. Their fundamental strokes might be different, more akin to a free stroke on classical guitar instead of a rest stroke. Note that if they play this way, they also may have calluses on the tips of their fingers instead of on the pad, which could lead to an even brighter tone.
2. String tension may make a difference as well.
3. Worst-case scenario, you could get a set of classical guitar fingerpicks for your index and ring fingers (like this), so you can play with a pick without having to change your fundamental technique. It'd be difficult; you'd have to decide whether it would be worth it for you. It probably wouldn't be for me, but I'm not you.
4. Related to number 1 - this might sound stupid, but check your calluses and check your friends' calluses. If you have softer fingers, this might contribute to what you're not hearing. It's a long shot, but might be worth checking out.

Bottom line, though, don't quit. I think the majority of us are in the same boat as you - the ideal that we hear in our heads is different that the reality of the sounds we make. And sometimes it's situational, too - it could depend on where you're standing, where the sound source is, the overall mix, everything.

Good luck, man. Keep working through it.

 

[BrotherMister]

So, as I understand this thread you are thinking about quitting because you don't like your tone?

The reality is what we often hear on recordings isn't what it sounds like live. Case and point is most people don't actually know what a live drum kit sounds like, it never sounds like whats on a record or what comes through the PA for most gigs.

Record yourself every day. It doesn't have to be a long recording but record yourself. Then listen to it the next day before you do anything on the instrument and being as objective as possible write down what you like and what you don't like about it. You'll be surprised what you start hearing in your own playing when you listen to it with fresh ears and objectively look at the good and bad.

Outside of that, get some lessons with a teacher. Remember, you get asked to play music with people regularly and people enjoy what you do. If they didn't like your tone then they wouldn't keep asking you or keep listening to you.

 

[BassFalcon]

I've heard everything you've done but the one thing that could truly make a difference...getting lessons from a quality instructor based in jazz.

I’m gonna hop on this train too with jimmy and @RichSnyder. What you need is top quality instruction. Explain your goals, tell them you want to work on tone production, treat it like a therapy session, get it all out there, and then listen and do exactly what they say. In this case the pandemic is working in your favor. It’s now easier than ever to get video lessons with just about any bass player you can think of. Try a few. Off the top of my head I recently saw Matt McJunkins advertising on Instagram that he has slots open. He may be a good one for you to try. He’s played with A Perfect Circle and Eagles of Death Metal and all sorts of bands in and around the rock and hard rock area. Tim Lefebrve is another tone beast that does video lessons. Not really your genre but he is very well known for expertly crafting a variety of tones. Try a bunch, talk to a bunch of the highest level experts you can find. After all these folks are all bassists and generally speaking bassists are always friendly to other bassists. Shoot for the moon, Billy Sheehan and Tony Franklin are also easily found on social media. You may not be able to book a lesson with them, but both are very nice guys and would engage with you if you had a specific question to ask. Or quit if you want to. That’s fine too. Maybe you need some time off and need to come back with a fresh perspective. Whatever you do, best of luck.

 

[WestyBassBob]

Everyone has limitations. Learn to embrace them and work within them. I can’t play very fast. These days my answer is not to worry about my top speed and simply play the speeds I can. I figure my top speed is 40 MPH whatever that means. It’s fast enough to make music and get somewhere even if some parts remain out of reach.

Personally, I have found that emulating others and playing their music, especially that of world class bands like Rush, to be ultimately unfulfilling. You never really get there. And it’s easy to forget those bands find often it difficult to play their own music and sound like themselves. Studio cuts are the very best takes captured in a very controlled situation and then often mixed and mastered by excellent sound engineers. They are an illusion.

I’ve pivoted to devoting my time to originals where I can play like me and sound like me. It just washes away these concerns and puts me in a different and more creative space where I can do no wrong. I merely focus on the challenge of doing my best to make the best music I can. That is, after all, what our musical heroes did isn’t it?

This.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Caution - long post. As the thread title suggests, I have been playing the bass for over 12 years now. During this time, I've always considered it my main instrument and thus "identified as" a bassist. But I have never been happy with my tone - and I've lurked this place along with others to know that tone is in the fingers. And after over a decade of technique (along with gear) experimentation, I think I've reached the conclusion that my fingers just won't do it. So would it be better to cut my losses and call it quits?

I enjoy and have learned songs in a variety of genres. That said, rock and metal are an important part of my musical enjoyment. It was bassists like Steve Harris and Geddy Lee who inspired me to pick up bass in the first place and to practice. These players have bright, aggressive tones that cut through a mix and are clear even when playing quickly. As for me, I seem to have an unusually dull tone (and lower volume), which I initially attributed to beginner gear. But after a few years, when I started to hear other bassists play in person through the same gear, I heard a huge difference; me playing through a bass with the volume and tone knobs wide open sounds like pretty much anyone else playing with the tone almost all the way closed. Hell, I've even seen non-bassists / beginner bassists get sounds out of the instrument that are more pleasing to me than my own playing.

So I knew the problem was me. Determined to fix the problem that is me, I have tried varying my technique in pretty much every conceivable way. This included, but was not limited to: playing closer to the neck, playing closer to the bridge, playing more at an angle into the instrument, playing more at an angle across the instrument, playing hard, playing lightly, playing with fingers more bent, playing with fingers more straight, playing more relaxed, playing more stiff, playing with different fingers, and even playing left handed. I had a bassist (who produced a clearer tone than me) try to explain to me what he was doing. I had him explain right hand fingerstyle to me as if to a beginner. I also looked closely at what his hand was doing. Still no luck. People often like to say that if X player were to play through a different instrument or rig, they would still sound like X player. Well, turns out I have a signature tone, and I don't like it.

Over the years, I haven't just been practicing, of course. I played for my church for most of that time (until a few years ago), about every other week, often to fairly large audiences. I've also posted a video here or there on social media and shared with friends. I have always gotten compliments on my playing, from people with both musical and non-musical backgrounds (though never on my tone). I don't think the dull tone ever really impeded me on the context of church music, and some other genres. But I've always wanted to record my own rock and metal music. And over the years, I have always threw away any attempts I made in disgust after playing them back. If the type of song requires fast playing, it's mud.

Finally looking to remove my fingers from the equation, I started to try playing with a pick starting a month or two ago. I liked the sound I could get. Though I have felt like I had become a beginner again. Passages that would be easy for me fingerstyle are a struggle. The instrument no longer feels like an extension of me, but a bear I'm wrestling. But I've never been the type to be put off by practice, so this was a mountain I would have been willing to set out to conquer. However, more worryingly, still more recently (last couple weeks) I have been beginning to feel pain in my left arm. I am not a big person, and what I found that was causing it was trying to play with a proper thumb-on-the-back-of-the-neck left hand around frets 1-5. In order to position the bass to be comfortable for my picking hand, the neck is a bit further from me. I can alleviate the pain by playing with the thumb over the neck, like a guitarist would, but then I lose speed. I've been looking at how other pick bassists hold their bassist but haven't been able to settle into anything truly comfortable.

I don't know, man. I could try continuing to play with a pick, but get a short scale instrument (I have found the difference to be quite notable for me as a small person). Or some other solution that I'm not thinking of. But I'm getting tired of throwing money at my problems in vain. But I'm reluctant to quit because it just seems like a waste having spent years becoming proficient. I can always make music in other ways - I played piano for over a decade starting from when I was a kid, I've dabbled in guitar (but not super enjoyed it), and my drum rudiments are becoming...okay. But I like bass best.

Anyways, I'm just looking for honest advice and opinions from other musicians (and I fully admit that the vent was a little bit satisfying), if anybody here would be so inclined.

Keep practicing.

 

[WestyBassBob]

I think it’s also important to remember that bass isn’t a solo or even a lead instrument. My tone always sounds better when I’m playing with others. Because the job of the bass isn’t to wow people with skill and awesome runs. It’s to hold down the rhythm and provide a nice low end for the whole band. Pedals and preamps do a lot to change tone. Play with those.

 

[DirtDog]

What kind of bass(es) have you been playing?

 

[BarfanyShart]

I don't think you should quit. You say you are interested in switching to short scale with a pick, and that sounds like a good idea to me, even if it means relearning some stuff. I was in a rut with bass and I ended going to shortscale, with a whole new right hand technique, and a new tuning - and it REALLY worked, I have been having a phenomenal time, been having more fun, writing interesting stuff. I fully support shaking trying to shake things up before you give up.

 

[lfmn16]

You played with your fingers for 12 years, you aren’t going to pick up a pick and have the same skill level in a month.

For the thumb, first don’t do anything that hurts, you’ll just wind up with a chronic condition. See a GOOD teacher for this issue.

good luck

 

[jimmydean]

I'm an old dude , and have been looking for that ''tone"' for 50 years . Many amps , cabs , basses , effects , strings and I have just found what I have been looking for . Twelve years......piece of cake , mate . You don't want to quit playing , you just need to find gear that can give you what you need to hear .

 

[mexicanyella]

From what you describe, your tone is not objectively bad...you’re just not happy with it.

My first thought as I read your post was “explore using various types of picks and pick techniques for awhile,” and it sounds like you’ve had some success at that, and some warning signs from your body to respect some endurance and ergonomic limits.

Back to the “not objectively bad” point...obviously I don’t know the extent of your listening, but you mentioned rock and metal. It could be you’re trying to emulate sounds you like and are getting frustrated, but by broadening your listening you may find a genre(s) or artist(s) where tones closer to what you are currently frustrated with actually work well. Hearing darker, warmer tones in a context where they fit well might be validating and inspiring, and give you an attitude shift about how you already sound. You might find yourself able to take inspiration from multiple genres, end up with a better awareness of how to surround yourself with complementary sounds and do something “outside the box” of what you were looking at originally.

For example, it would never occur to me to pluck a bass with only my thumb...dull tone city, and limiting as hell, right? But I watched this video where Ed Friedland played a thumb-only reggae part (with fake dreads made from beer pull tabs), and it made sense. I haven’t actually adopted the thumb or the tab dreads myself, but it was an eye (ear?) opener.

I’m a firm believer in there being an appropriate context and use for almost any style and tone imaginable.

 

[waynobass]

On your amp turn up the treble and mid, and turn down the bass.

And stick with fingerstyle. I've tried a million times to play with a pick and I just don't get it. Screw it.

 

[MisterStompy]

From what you describe, your tone is not objectively bad...you’re just not happy with it.

My first thought as I read your post was “explore using various types of picks and pick techniques for awhile,” and it sounds like you’ve had some success at that, and some warning signs from your body to respect some endurance and ergonomic limits.

Back to the “not objectively bad” point...obviously I don’t know the extent of your listening, but you mentioned rock and metal. It could be you’re trying to emulate sounds you like and are getting frustrated, but by broadening your listening you may find a genre(s) or artist(s) where tones closer to what you are currently frustrated with actually work well. Hearing darker, warmer tones in a context where they fit well might be validating and inspiring, and give you an attitude shift about how you already sound. You might find yourself able to take inspiration from multiple genres, end up with a better awareness of how to surround yourself with complementary sounds and do something “outside the box” of what you were looking at originally.

For example, it would never occur to me to pluck a bass with only my thumb...dull tone city, and limiting as hell, right? But I watched this video where Ed Friedland played a thumb-only reggae part (with fake dreads made from beer pull tabs), and it made sense. I haven’t actually adopted the thumb or the tab dreads myself, but it was an eye (ear?) opener.

I’m a firm believer in there being an appropriate context and use for almost any style and tone imaginable.

Oh don't worry, I definitely appreciate a dark, warm tone in the right context. Some examples of bassists I've always really liked on this side of things are James Jamerson, Pino Palladino, and Joe Dart. And I'm actually fairly happy with my ability to nail this vibe when I put flats on my P bass. Obviously I can't ever sound exactly like the aforementioned players, but I can get a sound I like for motown and such.

I agree, I'm not objectively bad sounding. Just not...versatile?

 

[Standalone]

Tldr but I’ve been playing for just over 30 years and have only now hit my stride and found a band where I can shine and hone my skills on the road and in the studio.

If you enjoy it, keep doing it. It doesn’t even have to be about eventual success.