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Been playing for 12 years - should I quit?

It sounds like you have set your expectations a little high...
Great bass playing covers a WIDE spectrum, from DeeDee Ramone to Jaco. You should be enjoying playing regardless of where you fall in the spectrum.
Tone is mostly for bass players to fret about, argue about, and obsess over.
The non-bass playing public dosen't hear it and dosen't care.
The only thing that matters is whether or not you enjoy playing or not. Continuing to do anything you don't enjoy is ridiculous!
But quitting something you still enjoy, especially over something as vague as tone,
Is just sad.
 
Caution - long post. As the thread title suggests, I have been playing the bass for over 12 years now. During this time, I've always considered it my main instrument and thus "identified as" a bassist. But I have never been happy with my tone - and I've lurked this place along with others to know that tone is in the fingers. And after over a decade of technique (along with gear) experimentation, I think I've reached the conclusion that my fingers just won't do it. So would it be better to cut my losses and call it quits?

I enjoy and have learned songs in a variety of genres. That said, rock and metal are an important part of my musical enjoyment. It was bassists like Steve Harris and Geddy Lee who inspired me to pick up bass in the first place and to practice. These players have bright, aggressive tones that cut through a mix and are clear even when playing quickly. As for me, I seem to have an unusually dull tone (and lower volume), which I initially attributed to beginner gear. But after a few years, when I started to hear other bassists play in person through the same gear, I heard a huge difference; me playing through a bass with the volume and tone knobs wide open sounds like pretty much anyone else playing with the tone almost all the way closed. Hell, I've even seen non-bassists / beginner bassists get sounds out of the instrument that are more pleasing to me than my own playing.

So I knew the problem was me. Determined to fix the problem that is me, I have tried varying my technique in pretty much every conceivable way. This included, but was not limited to: playing closer to the neck, playing closer to the bridge, playing more at an angle into the instrument, playing more at an angle across the instrument, playing hard, playing lightly, playing with fingers more bent, playing with fingers more straight, playing more relaxed, playing more stiff, playing with different fingers, and even playing left handed. I had a bassist (who produced a clearer tone than me) try to explain to me what he was doing. I had him explain right hand fingerstyle to me as if to a beginner. I also looked closely at what his hand was doing. Still no luck. People often like to say that if X player were to play through a different instrument or rig, they would still sound like X player. Well, turns out I have a signature tone, and I don't like it.

Over the years, I haven't just been practicing, of course. I played for my church for most of that time (until a few years ago), about every other week, often to fairly large audiences. I've also posted a video here or there on social media and shared with friends. I have always gotten compliments on my playing, from people with both musical and non-musical backgrounds (though never on my tone). I don't think the dull tone ever really impeded me on the context of church music, and some other genres. But I've always wanted to record my own rock and metal music. And over the years, I have always threw away any attempts I made in disgust after playing them back. If the type of song requires fast playing, it's mud.

Finally looking to remove my fingers from the equation, I started to try playing with a pick starting a month or two ago. I liked the sound I could get. Though I have felt like I had become a beginner again. Passages that would be easy for me fingerstyle are a struggle. The instrument no longer feels like an extension of me, but a bear I'm wrestling. But I've never been the type to be put off by practice, so this was a mountain I would have been willing to set out to conquer. However, more worryingly, still more recently (last couple weeks) I have been beginning to feel pain in my left arm. I am not a big person, and what I found that was causing it was trying to play with a proper thumb-on-the-back-of-the-neck left hand around frets 1-5. In order to position the bass to be comfortable for my picking hand, the neck is a bit further from me. I can alleviate the pain by playing with the thumb over the neck, like a guitarist would, but then I lose speed. I've been looking at how other pick bassists hold their bassist but haven't been able to settle into anything truly comfortable.

I don't know, man. I could try continuing to play with a pick, but get a short scale instrument (I have found the difference to be quite notable for me as a small person). Or some other solution that I'm not thinking of. But I'm getting tired of throwing money at my problems in vain. But I'm reluctant to quit because it just seems like a waste having spent years becoming proficient. I can always make music in other ways - I played piano for over a decade starting from when I was a kid, I've dabbled in guitar (but not super enjoyed it), and my drum rudiments are becoming...okay. But I like bass best.

Anyways, I'm just looking for honest advice and opinions from other musicians (and I fully admit that the vent was a little bit satisfying), if anybody here would be so inclined.

Before for you give it up, let me ask you this. With regard to your “tone”, I see no mention of your EQ settings on your bass amp, your choice of strings, and their age, all or any of which can sabotage your sound.
 
A couple pieces of advice:

Pain
Try holding your bass more vertically, as I describe in detail here.
Go ahead and wrap your thumb around the back unless you're playing something complicated that requires perfect technique. 95% of rock and roll is two-finger riffs. Save the unnatural wrist position for the few passages where it's actually necessary.

Tone
What @Wasnex said. Curved fingers, floating thumb.
Lower your action until you get a bit of fret buzz when you play hard. That's where the life and "grind" comes from in bass tone...not from overcooked treble, but from a controlled amount of fret noise. Listen to an isolated Geddy Lee bass track and you'll hear it right away.
Put your bass amp on a stand, stand farther away, or get a tiltback. If you're standing right next to a small cabinet, most of the definition is lost.

I hope you find something that works for you!
 
Caution - long post. As the thread title suggests, I have been playing the bass for over 12 years now. During this time, I've always considered it my main instrument and thus "identified as" a bassist. But I have never been happy with my tone - and I've lurked this place along with others to know that tone is in the fingers. And after over a decade of technique (along with gear) experimentation, I think I've reached the conclusion that my fingers just won't do it. So would it be better to cut my losses and call it quits?

I enjoy and have learned songs in a variety of genres. That said, rock and metal are an important part of my musical enjoyment. It was bassists like Steve Harris and Geddy Lee who inspired me to pick up bass in the first place and to practice. These players have bright, aggressive tones that cut through a mix and are clear even when playing quickly. As for me, I seem to have an unusually dull tone (and lower volume), which I initially attributed to beginner gear. But after a few years, when I started to hear other bassists play in person through the same gear, I heard a huge difference; me playing through a bass with the volume and tone knobs wide open sounds like pretty much anyone else playing with the tone almost all the way closed. Hell, I've even seen non-bassists / beginner bassists get sounds out of the instrument that are more pleasing to me than my own playing.

So I knew the problem was me. Determined to fix the problem that is me, I have tried varying my technique in pretty much every conceivable way. This included, but was not limited to: playing closer to the neck, playing closer to the bridge, playing more at an angle into the instrument, playing more at an angle across the instrument, playing hard, playing lightly, playing with fingers more bent, playing with fingers more straight, playing more relaxed, playing more stiff, playing with different fingers, and even playing left handed. I had a bassist (who produced a clearer tone than me) try to explain to me what he was doing. I had him explain right hand fingerstyle to me as if to a beginner. I also looked closely at what his hand was doing. Still no luck. People often like to say that if X player were to play through a different instrument or rig, they would still sound like X player. Well, turns out I have a signature tone, and I don't like it.

Over the years, I haven't just been practicing, of course. I played for my church for most of that time (until a few years ago), about every other week, often to fairly large audiences. I've also posted a video here or there on social media and shared with friends. I have always gotten compliments on my playing, from people with both musical and non-musical backgrounds (though never on my tone). I don't think the dull tone ever really impeded me on the context of church music, and some other genres. But I've always wanted to record my own rock and metal music. And over the years, I have always threw away any attempts I made in disgust after playing them back. If the type of song requires fast playing, it's mud.

Finally looking to remove my fingers from the equation, I started to try playing with a pick starting a month or two ago. I liked the sound I could get. Though I have felt like I had become a beginner again. Passages that would be easy for me fingerstyle are a struggle. The instrument no longer feels like an extension of me, but a bear I'm wrestling. But I've never been the type to be put off by practice, so this was a mountain I would have been willing to set out to conquer. However, more worryingly, still more recently (last couple weeks) I have been beginning to feel pain in my left arm. I am not a big person, and what I found that was causing it was trying to play with a proper thumb-on-the-back-of-the-neck left hand around frets 1-5. In order to position the bass to be comfortable for my picking hand, the neck is a bit further from me. I can alleviate the pain by playing with the thumb over the neck, like a guitarist would, but then I lose speed. I've been looking at how other pick bassists hold their bassist but haven't been able to settle into anything truly comfortable.

I don't know, man. I could try continuing to play with a pick, but get a short scale instrument (I have found the difference to be quite notable for me as a small person). Or some other solution that I'm not thinking of. But I'm getting tired of throwing money at my problems in vain. But I'm reluctant to quit because it just seems like a waste having spent years becoming proficient. I can always make music in other ways - I played piano for over a decade starting from when I was a kid, I've dabbled in guitar (but not super enjoyed it), and my drum rudiments are becoming...okay. But I like bass best.

Anyways, I'm just looking for honest advice and opinions from other musicians (and I fully admit that the vent was a little bit satisfying), if anybody here would be so inclined.

Don't quit.

I consider myself a fairly competent basis but for whatever reason people do not seem to want to play with me. My best guess is it's a personality thing. I am not a partier, don't really care at all about the hang, being cool, etc...I literally just want to show up, set up, play and get the heck home and I think it rubs people the wrong way. Add in the fact that I usually make the not so unreasonable request for organization in terms of having set lists or some idea of what will be played at both gigs and rehearsals/jam sessions which many seem to not like and I have ended up not getting many gigs lately.

Id get seriously bummed when I see others gigging and I am not and I thought about hanging it up as a result, but than I'd listen to the videos of these people performing and heard what to me was largely a sub-par performance and people doing nothing more than jamming through tunes/chord changes and felt somewhat better because I realize these people were simply just interested in being seen performing regardless of the quality of music being played.

I've since come to peace with the fact that at this point I am likely never going to have the type of band I want (one that sounds really, really good and on point), and have found a ton of enjoyment in solo playing at home. I've sunk a ton of money into various effects to experiment and explore different sounds and tonal palettes, and have also picked up a Beat Buddy and I've spent hours coming up with various grooves that I enjoy playing.

While music really is best played with others, for some of us that option goes away with time for various reasons.

Add in some double bass studies I am doing and I am having quite a bit enjoyment without having to deal with the hassles of a band or other musicians.
 
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I don't know what I could add that hasn't already been posted.

Yeah. If you don't enjoy it anymore then don't do it. If you do enjoy it though, and other people, particularly the people that you play with enjoy what you play, then why worry so much about this ideal sound? You sound like you. That's a good thing.

I've been playing for over 30 years now. I play every single gig like it's the last one, simply because it may be. I love to play, I love the guys I play with. Whether or not I sound like [fit this bracket] is the last thing on my mind at downbeat.

You'll know what to do.
 
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Maybe it's like hearing your own voice on a recording, everyone hates how they sound when they hear it.
I have experienced where someone plays the same bass through the same amp, and I dig how they sound, and then I plug in and don't like how it sounds. I guess it's why we say it's all in the fingers. For me I like a fat warm sound, I use flats, and I like my P bass, and I roll the tone back a lot. Then I dig my sound. Sounds like you just have to figure out how to get the tones you enjoy.
 
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Caution - long post. As the thread title suggests, I have been playing the bass for over 12 years now. During this time, I've always considered it my main instrument and thus "identified as" a bassist. But I have never been happy with my tone - and I've lurked this place along with others to know that tone is in the fingers. And after over a decade of technique (along with gear) experimentation, I think I've reached the conclusion that my fingers just won't do it. So would it be better to cut my losses and call it quits?

I enjoy and have learned songs in a variety of genres. That said, rock and metal are an important part of my musical enjoyment. It was bassists like Steve Harris and Geddy Lee who inspired me to pick up bass in the first place and to practice. These players have bright, aggressive tones that cut through a mix and are clear even when playing quickly. As for me, I seem to have an unusually dull tone (and lower volume), which I initially attributed to beginner gear. But after a few years, when I started to hear other bassists play in person through the same gear, I heard a huge difference; me playing through a bass with the volume and tone knobs wide open sounds like pretty much anyone else playing with the tone almost all the way closed. Hell, I've even seen non-bassists / beginner bassists get sounds out of the instrument that are more pleasing to me than my own playing.

So I knew the problem was me. Determined to fix the problem that is me, I have tried varying my technique in pretty much every conceivable way. This included, but was not limited to: playing closer to the neck, playing closer to the bridge, playing more at an angle into the instrument, playing more at an angle across the instrument, playing hard, playing lightly, playing with fingers more bent, playing with fingers more straight, playing more relaxed, playing more stiff, playing with different fingers, and even playing left handed. I had a bassist (who produced a clearer tone than me) try to explain to me what he was doing. I had him explain right hand fingerstyle to me as if to a beginner. I also looked closely at what his hand was doing. Still no luck. People often like to say that if X player were to play through a different instrument or rig, they would still sound like X player. Well, turns out I have a signature tone, and I don't like it.

Over the years, I haven't just been practicing, of course. I played for my church for most of that time (until a few years ago), about every other week, often to fairly large audiences. I've also posted a video here or there on social media and shared with friends. I have always gotten compliments on my playing, from people with both musical and non-musical backgrounds (though never on my tone). I don't think the dull tone ever really impeded me on the context of church music, and some other genres. But I've always wanted to record my own rock and metal music. And over the years, I have always threw away any attempts I made in disgust after playing them back. If the type of song requires fast playing, it's mud.

Finally looking to remove my fingers from the equation, I started to try playing with a pick starting a month or two ago. I liked the sound I could get. Though I have felt like I had become a beginner again. Passages that would be easy for me fingerstyle are a struggle. The instrument no longer feels like an extension of me, but a bear I'm wrestling. But I've never been the type to be put off by practice, so this was a mountain I would have been willing to set out to conquer. However, more worryingly, still more recently (last couple weeks) I have been beginning to feel pain in my left arm. I am not a big person, and what I found that was causing it was trying to play with a proper thumb-on-the-back-of-the-neck left hand around frets 1-5. In order to position the bass to be comfortable for my picking hand, the neck is a bit further from me. I can alleviate the pain by playing with the thumb over the neck, like a guitarist would, but then I lose speed. I've been looking at how other pick bassists hold their bassist but haven't been able to settle into anything truly comfortable.

I don't know, man. I could try continuing to play with a pick, but get a short scale instrument (I have found the difference to be quite notable for me as a small person). Or some other solution that I'm not thinking of. But I'm getting tired of throwing money at my problems in vain. But I'm reluctant to quit because it just seems like a waste having spent years becoming proficient. I can always make music in other ways - I played piano for over a decade starting from when I was a kid, I've dabbled in guitar (but not super enjoyed it), and my drum rudiments are becoming...okay. But I like bass best.

Anyways, I'm just looking for honest advice and opinions from other musicians (and I fully admit that the vent was a little bit satisfying), if anybody here would be so inclined.

Slightly different take on it, from me:
Lots of text but not so much about what gear you use. I went through a similar period of being unhappy with my fingerstyle tone. I eventually realized that my relatively soft touch made the bass sound dull. As mentioned, fret noise is an important part of the electric bass tone "texture". Other players could pick up my (good!) Precision bass, and get that clanky top, hollow mids and fat bottom, but I made it sound mainly, just heavy.

Not knowing your bass, I still say:
1. Get rounds!
2. Check and adjust your setup, especially relief and string height. You want SOME clank and buzz.
3. Check (and ajust) your pickup height. Soft attack, and the pickups might need to sit closer to the strings.

During the years, I have done this, and I and my basses now sound in a way that I like. Finding the sweet spot in the setup is important, as it will help you refine your technique faster.

Oh! By the way, check your fretting hand too! And a teacher can be great!

Good luck!
 
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Maybe it's like hearing your own voice on a recording, everyone hates how they sound when they hear it.
I have experienced where someone plays the same bass through the same amp, and I dig how they sound, and then I plug in and don't like how it sounds. I guess it's why we say it's all in the fingers. For me I like a fat warm sound, I use flats, and I like my P bass, and I roll the tone back a lot. Then I dig my sound. Sounds like you just have to figure out how to get the tones you enjoy.

For sure man, that's also how I know that it isn't my hearing, relative spacial position or equipment. Same instrument, same rig. I pass the bass to someone else, it sounds great.
 
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With quitting comes regret. ... Maybe you need to shift your direction. ... After twenty-years on the road I hung it up for a year and concentrated on other things, working, reading, writing and when I picked it up again it was great. ... I had matured and played more like a matured, schooled player, which I was what I wanted to be without stars in my eyes. ... I wanted to be a professional not someone showing off to score a better gig. ... Music is a journey so try not to forget why you're on it.
 
What did the guy who you observed say about you technique?

Are you pathologically weak in the hands? Arthritis? Carpal tunnel? Etc.

Good question. So if we were to call the three joints in your finger the knuckle joint, middle joint, and fingertip joint, his criticism of my technique was that my fingertip joint wasn't bending much, if at all. This made him conject that I was using just the muscles in my fingers to sort of "hook" the strings rather than the muscles in the forearm. There was a certain amount of truth to that, and in the following months I worked at engaging those larger muscles. I feel like it's given me more power, but the resulting sound is more or less the same. I was also never able to solve the fingertip joint thing. When I looked at the other guy's hand when he played, I noticed that his fingertip would actually bend backwards slightly at the fingertip joint from the string pressure, which may lead to more springyness. I found that my fingers are physically incapable of doing that. Even if I grab my fingertip with the other hand and pull backwards, my fingertip cannot bend backwards at the last joint. And with regards to forward bend during the stroke, that doesn't seem to happen for me, even if I tell my finger to be totally limp. At the end of the rest stroke, when my fingertip is against the next string, my middle joint is belt while my fingertip joint is straight. Must be a joints thing.
 
I've heard everything you've done but the one thing that could truly make a difference...getting lessons from a quality instructor based in jazz.
It really does sound like you could benefit from talking with an experienced teacher. You don’t know what you don’t know, and if you feel like you’ve run out of options, it doesn’t mean that those options aren’t out there. Even just small adjustments done the right way can make a huge difference - especially when it comes to technique that is causing pain. Thumb and finger pain is rarely about just the thumb or finger - the strength in your fingers comes from the whole arm, all the way to where it’s anchored in the upper back and shoulder. None of us here can identify if there are any positional or tension problems in that chain on a TB thread, but a good instructor should be able to help you figure out the source of pain and a potential solution much more effectively than you can on your own.
 
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If tone is all in the fingers, why on earth would anyone buy a better sounding amp or bass? It's a yin yang thing, you need both a good technique and good equipment. Granted technique is important but it's not the last word in tone.

There's nothing wrong with upgrading equipment, getting a better amp or bass, or maybe a tone shaping pedal.
It won't save a poor techinque but can help it to sound somewhat better which in turn can make help you play better.

I'm more inspired to play a bass with good pickups, a fast neck, a good setup and with good strings; it feels better and pushes me to explore possibilities.

If you enjoy playing, enjoy it, live iland breath it... Many of us are never completely satisfied with our tone, we chase and work to make it better.... we feel like we are always improving regardless of our age or level of playing.

The easiest thing is to give up. Wouldn't it be a shame to quit right before making a breakthrough, you'd never know. You're not really seeing the progress you've made from day one because you are caught in tunnel vision and focusing on what you cannot do.

Relax and have fun with it, don't compare yourself to others and work on your own style of playing.
 
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Caution - long post. As the thread title suggests, I have been playing the bass for over 12 years now. During this time, I've always considered it my main instrument and thus "identified as" a bassist. But I have never been happy with my tone - and I've lurked this place along with others to know that tone is in the fingers. And after over a decade of technique (along with gear) experimentation, I think I've reached the conclusion that my fingers just won't do it. So would it be better to cut my losses and call it quits?

I enjoy and have learned songs in a variety of genres. That said, rock and metal are an important part of my musical enjoyment. It was bassists like Steve Harris and Geddy Lee who inspired me to pick up bass in the first place and to practice. These players have bright, aggressive tones that cut through a mix and are clear even when playing quickly. As for me, I seem to have an unusually dull tone (and lower volume), which I initially attributed to beginner gear. But after a few years, when I started to hear other bassists play in person through the same gear, I heard a huge difference; me playing through a bass with the volume and tone knobs wide open sounds like pretty much anyone else playing with the tone almost all the way closed. Hell, I've even seen non-bassists / beginner bassists get sounds out of the instrument that are more pleasing to me than my own playing.

So I knew the problem was me. Determined to fix the problem that is me, I have tried varying my technique in pretty much every conceivable way. This included, but was not limited to: playing closer to the neck, playing closer to the bridge, playing more at an angle into the instrument, playing more at an angle across the instrument, playing hard, playing lightly, playing with fingers more bent, playing with fingers more straight, playing more relaxed, playing more stiff, playing with different fingers, and even playing left handed. I had a bassist (who produced a clearer tone than me) try to explain to me what he was doing. I had him explain right hand fingerstyle to me as if to a beginner. I also looked closely at what his hand was doing. Still no luck. People often like to say that if X player were to play through a different instrument or rig, they would still sound like X player. Well, turns out I have a signature tone, and I don't like it.

Over the years, I haven't just been practicing, of course. I played for my church for most of that time (until a few years ago), about every other week, often to fairly large audiences. I've also posted a video here or there on social media and shared with friends. I have always gotten compliments on my playing, from people with both musical and non-musical backgrounds (though never on my tone). I don't think the dull tone ever really impeded me on the context of church music, and some other genres. But I've always wanted to record my own rock and metal music. And over the years, I have always threw away any attempts I made in disgust after playing them back. If the type of song requires fast playing, it's mud.

Finally looking to remove my fingers from the equation, I started to try playing with a pick starting a month or two ago. I liked the sound I could get. Though I have felt like I had become a beginner again. Passages that would be easy for me fingerstyle are a struggle. The instrument no longer feels like an extension of me, but a bear I'm wrestling. But I've never been the type to be put off by practice, so this was a mountain I would have been willing to set out to conquer. However, more worryingly, still more recently (last couple weeks) I have been beginning to feel pain in my left arm. I am not a big person, and what I found that was causing it was trying to play with a proper thumb-on-the-back-of-the-neck left hand around frets 1-5. In order to position the bass to be comfortable for my picking hand, the neck is a bit further from me. I can alleviate the pain by playing with the thumb over the neck, like a guitarist would, but then I lose speed. I've been looking at how other pick bassists hold their bassist but haven't been able to settle into anything truly comfortable.

I don't know, man. I could try continuing to play with a pick, but get a short scale instrument (I have found the difference to be quite notable for me as a small person). Or some other solution that I'm not thinking of. But I'm getting tired of throwing money at my problems in vain. But I'm reluctant to quit because it just seems like a waste having spent years becoming proficient. I can always make music in other ways - I played piano for over a decade starting from when I was a kid, I've dabbled in guitar (but not super enjoyed it), and my drum rudiments are becoming...okay. But I like bass best.

Anyways, I'm just looking for honest advice and opinions from other musicians (and I fully admit that the vent was a little bit satisfying), if anybody here would be so inclined.
Hey, the one thing I did not read in your post is "getting direct help from others" to deal with some of the tone and skill-development frustration, did me wonders. I would definitely encourage lessons, and from a teacher that will actually listen to your goals, this would include tone-shaping and skills. A good teacher can help you efficiently over the hurdles. Of course that is if you want to keep chasing it.

I also started in church, and most of the modern contemporary worship stuff does nothing to refine your chops (Hillsong, Jesus Culture, etc), but is a great starting platform, and a way to give back with your current talent level. It wasn't until I started attempting to play in cover bands where I realized my deficit in various skills, and that's when I found a bass teacher, and even a few months of lessons really helped my abilities, just needed to be persistent/consistent and practicing THE RIGHT WAY, which was hard. If you want it, get some help. If burnt out, take a break and see if the desire comes back.

I know you are really into finding "the tone" which is frustrating, and can actually take away from the learning part, IMHO. Once my chops got better following some time practicing "the right way" with help from a good teacher, I became a much happier bass player, and my tone just got better, and the desire to chase gear has decreased. A good teacher can find your weaknesses immediately, and will have you do specific work to overcome those shortcomings. My 3 cents.
 
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