Double Bass Beginner extremely frustrated

[csrund]

(For anyone interested, I added a link to Prof. Grodner's book in the previous post.)
https://www.amazon.com/Double-Bassi...qid=1528654565&sr=8-1&keywords=murray+grodner

 

[Neil Pye]

Definitely agree that there are a lot of variations in coloring vibrato; however, the way you describe it is backward from my approach: The more intense the vibrato, the more the entire mass of the arm and shoulder come into the string, right into the fingertip. (Not forced, just a shift in mass.) Yields a big, robust tone. For a lighter, more feathery coloring, I might shift the locus of motion below the elbow into the forearm. However, the natural motion of vibrato (in my physiological book, anyway) is a pivot around the axis between the finger and thumb, which implies that the motion comes from the arm.

If you look at JDeP and see how the entire instrument is buffeted under her intense vibrato, there's no way that energy could originate in the wrist. It may drive the wrist, certainly, but it's the entire mass of the arm that produces such great energy with ease and relaxation. (Hope I'm saying that in a way that makes sense.)

Here's how my first teacher, Murray Grodner, describes it in his book, A Double Bassist's Guide to Refining Performance Practices (Indiana University Press, 2013):

View attachment 3045815

I enjoy these threads of discussion with you guys a lot. (Probably straying from the OP's original question, but the dialog and different perspectives are all very good and interesting!)

Chris

Maybe I used the wrong word. "Tight" or "narrow" might be a better word. I'm with you all the way.

 

[wathaet]

You can, yes. You should be able to do it any way, all the way from a soft, relaxed rotation coming from the shoulder, with almost no force involved, to a tight , intense, dramatic vibrato in the wrist. It's about control and choices. That's what made Jacqueline Du Pre unique (earlier post).

Why?
These guys never need to use this approach just as I never use theirs. I can't say I have worked with anyone who, to my knowledge, uses both methods.
What good cellists do is useful to know, but it does not all translate directly.

 

[Neil Pye]

Like I said, it's about choices and control. Your vibrato should be a conscious choice, just like bow weight, speed and placement should be. It should change to suit the music you're playing. If you can do it several ways, you have choices. You don't play Mozart the same as Brahms.

 

[Drgonzonm]

Wow, three weeks into bass playing and you're being taught vibrato.
My thoughts spend 15 minutes a day with the tuner. Then put it away. The tuners is develop your ear for pitch. Over time, you will know whether you are in tune or not.
Practice left hand position, as others have stated expect some hand movement as find the proper notes.
Believe me your left hand has no idea what your right hand is doing.
Welcome to cat fight where meows sound like an upset elephants gut. Best of practice.
( upright is cooler than electric bass)

 

[PaulCannon]

We are using the Simandl and I am struggling hard with the half position... But the fingering is never right. My hands hurt for trying to extend the fingers, and yet no good results.
Do I really have to stick with this "to each note its finger (1-2-4)", or should I give up and start learning how much I need to move my fingers when I come from a Bb to a G#?

What hasn't been mentioned yet is also set-up. Has your teacher played on your bass at all? Are they satisfied with the set-up? There's a big range between super easy professional set-ups and cheap, difficult ones. Student-quality instruments, and especially rentals, often come with completely un-usable set-ups. Sometimes they're even sold as-is, straight from the factory, with no adjustment at all. If the nut is set super high, for example, pushing the string down in half position can be very painful, or even impossible. You can also switch to a softer, lighter, thinner type of string like Corellis, which I think are much nicer for beginners to start with.

What's funny is that it's totally possible to have a high-quality, professional-type set-up on even the cheapest basses. You just need to find a good luthier who cares about what they're doing.

The Dirty Little Secret that is not mentioned in the Simandl Book is that it is pointless (and often dangerous) to (try and) keep ALL 3 Notes (in Half-Position) held in place by the left hand.
Any "2" notes IN TUNE/IN HALF POSITION should be the goal - trying to maintain that rigid, locked left-hand shape (with all 4 fingers DOWN!) is impossible for most mortals. It can also cause an unnecessary amount of tension to be exerted, AND, cause the left-hand to contort into an unnatural, uncomfortable, unsustainable shape.

Absolutely. It's certainly a nice skill to have, but it's ridiculous to insist on it from the very beginning. The hard and rigid hand shape concept found in Simandl is, in my mind, its biggest failure. That's maybe a controversial opinion, but I've made it this far in my life without it. And I think I play pretty good.

I highly recommend starting bass using the “Progressive Repertoire” by George Vance. But you need a teacher familiar with it.

Definitely a good suggestion, particularly as it directly addresses the OP's problem from the very beginning. However, it's not always easy to find a qualified teacher. It's a completely different approach from Simandl, and much less commonly taught. It's also designed more for younger students, so the focus on children's songs might annoy the Serious Adult types.