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Behringer a SOLID name?

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I'd say they have a pretty solid reputation for being a manufacturer of junk.

If you're on a very, very tight budget and you absolutely have to have something to use, then yeah, maybe I'd go for some of Behringer's stuff. If not, you're really better off saving for something higher quality.
 
Please guys, let's stop the cloning and/or stealing of designs stuff in this thread. It has been discussed countless times here at Talkbass so please, not again. However, I'm asking you to do this voluntarily to help keep this thread from being closed due to the fighting it alway breeds. However, I'm not going to stop the discussion of it if everbody treats each other respectfully. :cool:

BTW, anyone considering buying any product should do research before plunking down their cash and TB has a wealth of info on this and just about any other subject/topic already. So, caveat emptor! ;)
 
These Behringer threads have been going on for years. At the end of the day chops imo are what count. I'd rather have all behringer gear and chops than a rack full of Foderas and crap chops.

I'm glad behringer exist, cheap gear to get you started or for those who simply can't spend the money on better gear. At least they can get a start and go from there.

One of the absolute most talented guitarists I've ever seen at the time played a squire strat and a 50w marshal.

There is always used gear. Chops are not a replacement for playing music and Behringer is not a replacement for playing real gear. There is plenty of budget new gear out there that is higher quality than Behringer. Why pay less for something that will break often. How about all the times it works? Most gear folks are talking about the rare time something broke. The Behr owners are talking about the rare time their gear worked.
Let's talk about does it sound good. Well a new player should choose good gear so that their development is not hindered by a struggle with the gear. The resale of used gear can allow a player to often get what they put into to it less some "rental". Behringer resale? If it works?
Our used "learning/student" amps were Ampeg B-15s, Fender Bassmans and Showmans, Ampeg B-25s all vintage stuff today. Will Behr stand the test of time. Not if it's DOA in the box before it leaves the other side of the Ocean.
I did have a noname POS amp as my 1st amp. Shouldn't have wasted my moms coin. We didn't know. I was in pro gear as soon as I heard it about a month later.
 
Please guys, let's stop the cloning and/or stealing of designs stuff in this thread. It has been discussed countless times here at Talkbass so please, not again. However, I'm asking you to do this voluntarily to help keep this thread from being closed due to the fighting it alway breeds. However, I'm not going to stop the discussion of it if everbody treats each other respectfully. :cool:

BTW, anyone considering buying any product should do research before plunking down their cash and TB has a wealth of info on this and just about any other subject/topic already. So, caveat emptor! ;)
Right on with the caveat emptor. But I don't think you can have a discussion like this without discussing those aspects of the company. Not like they can sue TB over it. We are expressing our opinions over our impressions of their gear and talking about public record. But I've had my say so I'll respect your wishes for the rest of the thread.

BTW, did you know that Uli Behringer eats human flesh on a regular basis? It's true!*

* It's not true. I was just making a little jokey. Very little!
 
There is always used gear. Chops are not a replacement for playing music and Behringer is not a replacement for playing real gear. There is plenty of budget new gear out there that is higher quality than Behringer. Why pay less for something that will break often. How about all the times it works? Most gear folks are talking about the rare time something broke. The Behr owners are talking about the rare time their gear worked.
Let's talk about does it sound good. Well a new player should choose good gear so that their development is not hindered by a struggle with the gear. The resale of used gear can allow a player to often get what they put into to it less some "rental". Behringer resale? If it works?
Our used "learning/student" amps were Ampeg B-15s, Fender Bassmans and Showmans, Ampeg B-25s all vintage stuff today. Will Behr stand the test of time. Not if it's DOA in the box before it leaves the other side of the Ocean.
I did have a noname POS amp as my 1st amp. Shouldn't have wasted my moms coin. We didn't know. I was in pro gear as soon as I heard it about a month later.

That's a fair point but not everyones experience is the same. My experience of behringer was good. I used a 210 cab, it did fine, in fact considering I was using a crown power amp that was accidentally bridged for a short period of time and didn't kill the 210 I surprised how well it did. It was cheap, it had no flaws and I sold it for almost what I paid for it.

I have spent much bigger money on genuine US made Fenders that have let me down because of the poor QC.

I agree this is just one case but it's the one I had. I would personally prefer to buy the more reputable brands too and I do. Other than my Metro Sadowsky, crown amp and Lakland the rest is US made by the big common guys and and yes nothing has ever failed. QC issues at delivery time but even the big guys have a bad day.

As for copying, i really don't see it being a unique event. Every US made car kind of looks like a Mercedes. Well of course they do as nature of efficiency in design makes it that way. Power amps, microphones, mixers, there's nothing special about any of them. Having an electronics education I can safely say that just about every equal class power amp all look the basically same on a schematic.

They have for decades.


BTW. The chinese made crown power amp I use is cheaper than a behringer. It's probably a copy from something else too.

Anyone own a J or P bass copy, how many companies have copied that design no end and to the point where you need to look for the headstock sticker to tell. Lakland, Sadowsky etc etc.

Is it about the copying? If it is there's plenty of other doing it too.

Is it about quality? Behringer are all about volume and cost. They must sell literally millions of these products. Consider the failure rate of that volume and they possibly (possibly) have a very decent failure rate.

This argument always seems like it's a little from the heart to me.
 
I avoid Behringer on principle.

They do not perform their own R&D (they just rip off other designs) so basically they are taking money away from companies that do. Once you take money away from the "real" companies, they will have less R&D money, i.e less cool products coming to market.

Behringer is like a leach on the audio industry. I could care less whether their stuff is any good - I won't buy it :).

Later
Rob

I agree
 
OK, I have to add a dose of reality in here for everyone.

I am a Behringer expert. Why? Well, because the service center I manage in NYC has been with Behringer USA since the beginning, when they split from Samson Technologies, their previous distributor. Prior to that, I was the service manager at Samson Technologies, and Behringer was one of the issues I oversaw. I have been to Behringer in Germany, as well as spoke with Uli on several occasions, and have thorough knowledge of Behringer's business, such that I am under Non-Disclosure Agreement with them. Up until about about 1.5yrs. ago, I was also in charge of US Parts Distribution for product service, and we still sell repair parts for them. Lastly, I own many of their products and service them as well. So, I speak here with a solid background.

First of all, many manufacturers are pissed at Uli. Not because he may have allegedly plagarized designs (BTW- there has never been a case prosecuted against Behringer). They are pissed because Uli can do it cheaper than anyone else, and has built an empire doing this. About Uli: he is a smart man, well-versed in business, music and electronics. He knows what people want, and will give it to them cheaper than anyone else. He is dedicated to his work, and eats, sleeps and ***** the business.

Behringer products work, and they work well for the price point and applications they were designed for. Is there a lot of broken Behringer stuff in the world? Hell yes! However, because Behringer SELLS more of a given product (LOTS more), it just seems like Behringer is the worst offender, which is NOT true. I can tell you from solid service experience that there are other POPULAR manufacturers whose products I see on a regular basis and I would not touch with a barge pole! Sorry, I can't name them, because we are authorized to service them also.

And what about service? Behringer, for the most part nowadays, is a swap-only service procedure. You get a new unit! Now, while this goes against my technician grain, Behringer is hardly alone, and it is what it is.

Anyone know about Behringer City in China? Behringer's operation is now so large that they have their own self-contained city with employee housing and services, plus they are self-sufficient, manufacturing all components and subassemblies themselves. In order to keep the production line going 24/7, Uli now builds for OTHER companies as well, in a "If-ya-can't-beat-'em-join-'em" rally by competitive mfrs., who are some of the biggest names in the business.

Behringer lays no claims toward being tour-grade gear. What it is though, is good, utility-grade gear that is well-designed and offers a lot of bang-for-the-buck. If the alleged circuit design ripoff bothers you, please keep in mind that intellectual property gets ripped off and/or plagarized in EVERY industry, every day. Unless the accusations stick in the courts, it is all conjecture and misinformation. Cease-and-desist orders are common in many industries, but if that is all there is, there is no case.
 
First of all, many manufacturers are pissed at Uli. Not because he may have allegedly plagarized designs (BTW- there has never been a case prosecuted against Behringer).
That's because he settles out of court and changes the designs slightly in order to beat the "similar look and feel" standards courts use in cases like those. Being a longtime service tech, it should be apparent to you. And being a longtime student of the law without ever being a lawyer, I know that lack of prosecution of a filed court case doesn't mean anything other than a settlement has been reached or the prosecuting side has decided to let it go. It doesn't mean he didn't do it. I know everyone copies everyone else, but jeez, show a little creativity in the process!

But since we're not supposed to talk about that anymore (oops!), I'll just say that Uli Behringer is a very good businessman who has brought reasonable gear to people who never could have afforded it before. That's not bad.
 
Behringer even can't come up with an original name for their products, look at the model names for their mixers and what's with their mic pre. name: "Zenyx"? I guess that Mackie's own Onyx name for their mic pres means squat to Behringer!
 
You also got to like that swap only deal. Doesn't work! well will give you a new one if its under warranty. If the warranty has expired your SOL since nobody wants to repair them. Throw it away. Its not like our landfills are not already overflowing.
 
You also got to like that swap only deal. Doesn't work! well will give you a new one if its under warranty. If the warranty has expired your SOL since nobody wants to repair them. Throw it away. Its not like our landfills are not already overflowing.

Swap-out is nothing new. Sony pioneered the concept with their blister-packed Sony Walkman series back in the 80's. This has been followed by the pager, and now cell phone industries. In addition, several MAJOR MI/Pro Audio mfrs. have already followed suit. It's not that no one will repair the stuff, it just isn't cost-effective to do so.

This practice, which I admit is a waste of natural resources as well as a major source of ground and water-table pollution, is what has spawned the "RoHs" specifications of manufacturing using non-leaded (as in Pb, the metal) solder. Behringer, as well as most other major manufacturers, is RoHs compliant as well as ISO9002 compliant.
 
Swap-out is nothing new. Sony pioneered the concept with their blister-packed Sony Walkman series back in the 80's. This has been followed by the pager, and now cell phone industries. In addition, several MAJOR MI/Pro Audio mfrs. have already followed suit. It's not that no one will repair the stuff, it just isn't cost-effective to do so.

This practice, which I admit is a waste of natural resources as well as a major source of ground and water-table pollution, is what has spawned the "RoHs" specifications of manufacturing using non-leaded (as in Pb, the metal) solder. Behringer, as well as most other major manufacturers, is RoHs compliant as well as ISO9002 compliant.

That's interesting, as RoHS has also made gear less reliable, hastening its trip to the landfill.

As for good old Joe User, I will continue to maintain my own gear. But I realize that's not an option for everybody.
 
My problem with Behringer is not just that they ripoff other's ideas and designs. My gripe is that in doing so, they cut the profits of companies that are out there trying to innovate. Lower profits mean less money invested back into R&D and fewer new products for us. Then the "real" companies drop their quality or cut a few corners here or there or move production overseas to shave some of their price to better compete
with Behringer. The prices go down, but we end up with gear that we use for a year or two and chuck when it breaks. It's the WalMart effect for the music world.
 
My problem with Behringer is not just that they ripoff other's ideas and designs. My gripe is that in doing so, they cut the profits of companies that are out there trying to innovate. Lower profits mean less money invested back into R&D and fewer new products for us. Then the "real" companies drop their quality or cut a few corners here or there or move production overseas to shave some of their price to better compete
with Behringer. The prices go down, but we end up with gear that we use for a year or two and chuck when it breaks. It's the WalMart effect for the music world.

Exactly!
 
Well you can't do anything about that. Stealing designs for products has been around long before we were here and it'll be here long after we're gone. And by now, everyone knows what they get when they buy Behringer, so I can't fault them for making disposable gear. But dang, don't be so blatant about stealing!
 
And yet many pay Bill Gates for what he takes, not buys from other innovative companies. (imo only for legal reasons)

What has behringer ripped off that's so special and not already common?

I'd love to have new gear when one fails. Given is musical gear that would help a lot if you have a gig that night. Then they can be batch repaired in volume and sold off as "refurbished" just like many other companies do.
 
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