-Name brand, covered by medical anyway.
-Advil
-Not usually. But how much R&D went into canned peaches anyway
Still won't buy Behringer
Later
Rob
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Behringer a SOLID name?
- Thread starter Jared92
- Start date
- Status
-Name brand, covered by medical anyway.
-Advil
-Not usually. But how much R&D went into canned peaches anyway
Still won't buy Behringer
Later
Rob
There is a seven year patent on medications. After that seven years, it's ENTIRELY legal for a drug company to release a generic version of any name brand drug to the market.
Looking at all the lawsuits against Behringer, I'd say legality is not a top priority.
I think he was referring to rob2966...
Yup, he was referring to me
. Apparantly I lack the "everyone else is stealing so why shouldn't I attitude" required for the music industry 
. Good thing it is just a hobby for me.Later
Rob
- Jul 11, 2006
- 433
- 12
- Disclosures
- Tech Director, dBm Pro Audio Services, New York
Yes, I WAS referring to Rob2966, who I hope is not offended. It's just that the industry really does not care one iota about people who won't buy on principle, because there are FAR more who don't care if a design was someone else's domain (allegedly, that is).
Conversely, there must be plenty of people who have guilty consciences though, otherwise iTunes would be out of business.
Conversely, there must be plenty of people who have guilty consciences though, otherwise iTunes would be out of business.
My comment on the SM58 is regarding the outward looks of the two mics. Inside, ???
Whatever Behr. has on the inside of their products, they sure do try hard to make their stuff LOOK like someone elses. Why? Can't they be original thinkers in the aesthetics department?
Whatever Behr. has on the inside of their products, they sure do try hard to make their stuff LOOK like someone elses. Why? Can't they be original thinkers in the aesthetics department?
I have a 1x15 Ultrabass. It's an ok cabinet. It's a second cab. I wouldn't depend on it as my first go to cab though.
I'm on the tech end, but from the manufacturing side. Fortunately, my industry is exempt from RoHS, except that many parts are now only available in RoHS versions.
Tin whiskers are not the only issue. The XBox failures were due to the brittleness of the lead free solder. This is a huge issue for music gear, because one of the main cost-reduction measures is to have mechanical parts such as pots and jacks supported directly on the circuit board, rather than attaching them to a panel with screws or a bushing & nut.
Proof? I am still waiting for evidence that Behringer copies designs. All of the pictures I have seen online, when posted to forums, result in comments like: "Oh yeah, they look similar on the outside, but are totally different designs inside." Or people say that they saw pictures long ago, or that there was a lawsuit.
As for the name brand drug, it doesn't have to be reverse engineered, as the exact chemical compound and crystal form are disclosed in patents. The generic goes on the market when the name brand patent expires. My insurance company dictates which version I get.
ive never used their bass stuff, and ive been told to avoid the mixers like the plague, but the KS1200 PA/keyboard amp is one of the finest full-range speaker setups i've ever played.... i own an Ampeg 1832he
- Jul 11, 2006
- 433
- 12
- Disclosures
- Tech Director, dBm Pro Audio Services, New York
Yes, the brittleness of lead-free solder is one of the failure modes I was referring to. We've seen a sharp rise in force and vibration-related solder failures. In addition, due to the naturally dull and somewhat grainy appearance of RoHs solder, it is difficult tell good solder joints from bad, which led us to invest in a $2K industrial microscope to be able to examine solder joints more closely. Since repair facilities are exempt from having to use RoHs solder, we will sometimes do a wholesale resoldering of every joint on the board that looks bad, and that can be an entire PCB sometimes! We use traditional tin/lead silver-bearing solder, and it generally fixes a multitude of problems. Reflow with flux is often not enough.
Ironically, the medical and avionics industries are exempt from RoHs solder, because failures have huge potential for causing personal injury. The MI and Pro Audio industries just get lumped in at the low end of the scale. Who cares if your gear goes down in front of a stadium crowd?
Are you operating a small enough line to be exempt?
Sorry people...didn't mean to hijack the thread, but this is a topic that touches all of us in many ways, besides our musical gear.
I don't know for sure, but I heard the China ROHS is a sticker compliance at the moment. If you use lead (or one of the other chemicals) you just have to label your product with it. Beats me if this prevents it from being imported into EU.
Since ROHS has been in existence, there's millions of lead free cell phones, many of Dell's computers are lead free. ... I hadn't heard there's a huge failure rate of these. I don't know that I believe it's the only cause for the X-box failures. The jury's out. I'm don't see it as all doom and gloom.
Since ROHS has been in existence, there's millions of lead free cell phones, many of Dell's computers are lead free. ... I hadn't heard there's a huge failure rate of these. I don't know that I believe it's the only cause for the X-box failures. The jury's out. I'm don't see it as all doom and gloom.
I have a VBassPro that is the front end of my gig rack (it goes into a QSC power amp, which goes into 2 big heavy Peavey cabs)
It has been to hell and back for 2 years on gigs and practice, no problem.
Does it sound like a POD-6? Probably not, but my Yamaha doesn't sound like a... (you fill in the blanks) and I don't play like Jaco. Does anyone in the audiance notice - I seriously doubt it.
There was a thread about cheap vs expensive and could you tell the difference live. I think most agree that you can not, except when the very bad is concerned, and Behringer is not in that catagory.
People say you get what you pay for, and that is true. What I always wonder is why someone would for more than they need?
It has been to hell and back for 2 years on gigs and practice, no problem.
Does it sound like a POD-6? Probably not, but my Yamaha doesn't sound like a... (you fill in the blanks) and I don't play like Jaco. Does anyone in the audiance notice - I seriously doubt it.
There was a thread about cheap vs expensive and could you tell the difference live. I think most agree that you can not, except when the very bad is concerned, and Behringer is not in that catagory.
People say you get what you pay for, and that is true. What I always wonder is why someone would for more than they need?
bongomania
Commercial User
I reviewed two Behr compressors. One borrowed the look, functions, and control layout almost exactly from its Boss equivalent, with the primary difference being that it was made almost entirely out of lightweight plastic. The other was not a wholesale copy, but it did use at least one feature developed by Aphex and not found in any other commonly-available designs, leading me to say "Behr copied Aphex's design" for that function and its associated controls. One key element I noted about that Behr version was that all jacks, pots, and switches were RoHS soldered directly to the circuitboard, and there was only one board- so any physical jolt to the unit could potentially cause multiple solder-point failures at once.
Just a question - how do you know what you reviewed is any less rugged than another design? Did you test to failure? I too have an observation that the plastic is strong, and the case design supports the circuit board connections - jacks, etc.
I imagine a lot of this same conjecture came around when automobiles went to unibody construction.
I imagine a lot of this same conjecture came around when automobiles went to unibody construction.
bongomania
Commercial User
That's a fair challenge, and no I didn't test to failure. However I have been working with electronic instruments for over 20 years, and I've had Boss pedals from before that time still working great today; so we'll have to revisit this conversation in 20 years once we have similar data on the Behrs.
I don't know much about cars, but I can sure as heck tell you I'd rather replace a bumper or a quarterpanel than having to replace every internal component just because of an impact to a bumper or quarterpanel.
Ironically, the medical and avionics industries are exempt from RoHs solder, because failures have huge potential for causing personal injury. The MI and Pro Audio industries just get lumped in at the low end of the scale. Who cares if your gear goes down in front of a stadium crowd?
That's because our gear injures people when it does work, not when it doesn't.
I think the category I am in is something like industrial monitoring and control. I don't do electronic design myself, but am a system architect for products involving electronics. And I do a lot of manufacturing support. But I have done a lot of design in the past, and am presently active with it at home.
Interestingly, I have had to deal with RoHS because of the large amounts of lead and arsenic used in some types of optical glass. The premium glass suppliers have new formulas that don't use lead, but I still have to approve every material change.
Gear is tested to failure when it breaks. As I have repaired a lot of gear, I have a good sense of failure modes. Solder-supported jacks and pots are definitely an Achilles heel.
By the way, is this the strong plastic case you are talking about?
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286904
A couple years ago (been a while.. I forget when now) I opened up my Behringer 300 watt (claimed to be an Ashdown clone) and a friend's Ashdown MAG300 (supposedly the original).
The components, PCB layouts and transformers were all different. I took some pictures, I'll see if I can find them if I still have them backed up.
FWIW, my Behringer 300 amp is still going strong. My BDI21 is still going strong (and is probably my most used piece of gear).
The components, PCB layouts and transformers were all different. I took some pictures, I'll see if I can find them if I still have them backed up.
FWIW, my Behringer 300 amp is still going strong. My BDI21 is still going strong (and is probably my most used piece of gear).
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