Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Behringer a SOLID name?
- Thread starter Jared92
- Start date
- Status
Wow i never noticed this before until i started reading these threads look at what i found today shopping Power Amps
You be the Judge...
Behringer
Alesis
now at first glance can you tell them apart?
You be the Judge...
Behringer
Alesis
now at first glance can you tell them apart?
+1
And Behringer is everywhere - so there's a good chance a replacement is close at hand.
But I'd only buy used gear an any brand if I really knew what I was buying. It's a gamble. Buying new with a warranty exchange of any brand is the safest bet. And a brand that is everywhere has a better chance of a quick exchange.
Eh, I usually buy new only when I can't get something used. I figure if it's been working for a few years, it's probably good for a few more.
Wow i never noticed this before until i started reading these threads look at what i found today shopping Power Amps
You be the Judge...
Behringer
Alesis
now at first glance can you tell them apart?
So Alesis copied Behringer too?
Nah, just kidding, that's pretty blatant. But being cosmetics what do you do? Most cars look the same too.
That's nothing compared to their EXACT copy of an SM58 microphone, but I have noticed before how close Behr copied Alesis' amp.
There are a whole host of proprietary elements to a microphone: diaphram shape, thickness, and material, capsule design, shock isolation, impedance buffering, blast shielding, etc, ect. If you think they're so easy to build from scratch, give it a try sometime.
My view is that two products looking similar says nothing about what's inside. If the front panel tempts one to believe that a product is a copy of what's important -- design, reliability, performance -- then it's a credit to the success of a clever but rather transparent marketing strategy.
The most parsimonious explanation for why a "copy" is cheaper, is that the internal design is different, not that somebody has come up with some magical formula for squeezing the cost out of an existing design.
I have been in cost reduction projects, and the invariable conclusion is that any substantial savings requires re-designing the product from scratch. Not to say that cheaper is worse. I have made products cheaper and better at the same time.
Now, about disposable gear. I am casting no aspersions here. But doesn't anybody play gigs? Making my gear disposable means that my gigs are disposable, and also my money and time. I can't put a price on a gig with good players that could be ruined by equipment failure. I don't have the time to take an amp to the shop, or ship it to some remote place. Modest but decent pro gear doesn't even cost twice as much as the cheap stuff, so it only has to last twice as long to be a winning proposition.
The most parsimonious explanation for why a "copy" is cheaper, is that the internal design is different, not that somebody has come up with some magical formula for squeezing the cost out of an existing design.
I have been in cost reduction projects, and the invariable conclusion is that any substantial savings requires re-designing the product from scratch. Not to say that cheaper is worse. I have made products cheaper and better at the same time.
Now, about disposable gear. I am casting no aspersions here. But doesn't anybody play gigs? Making my gear disposable means that my gigs are disposable, and also my money and time. I can't put a price on a gig with good players that could be ruined by equipment failure. I don't have the time to take an amp to the shop, or ship it to some remote place. Modest but decent pro gear doesn't even cost twice as much as the cheap stuff, so it only has to last twice as long to be a winning proposition.
- Jul 11, 2006
- 433
- 12
- Disclosures
- Tech Director, dBm Pro Audio Services, New York
Yes, that is true. But RoHs specs are used across the board in ALL industries, not just by Behringer or the music industry, so everyone receives the same demerits. All of us in the tech end of the industry, including the mfrs. know that RoHs lead-free solder connections are more prone to failure or a phenomenon called "tin whiskers" (Google that for some wild information on electronic failures).
As for the Alesis power amp shown above, I DID say that Behringer is building products for other manufacturers. I cannot say whether or not Alesis is one of them, but there are several majors whose products, in fact, DO emanate from that factory, some of which are extremely popular and widely-used and loved by some of the same people that would normally have nothing good to say about Behringer.
Don't you see the pattern here? Behringer has the reputation of being the evil stepchild, when in fact, you might very well be using a Behringer product, sing it's praises and never know it.
The power of suggestion is a wonderful thing, huh?
You'd swear with the amount of gear the Behringer floods the world with there must be warehouses stacked full all the broken gear they've had to exchange. Anybody know the location of these storage bunkers? 
Here's a glowing endorsement from Kriss Blazina
"You can't kill this beast. I'll never use another brand of bass cabinet."
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Maybe Behringer will be cool now?
In any case, they're not going anywhere, I'll continue to look at them as just another brand of pro gear I can use if their product fits my need.
Here's a glowing endorsement from Kriss Blazina
"You can't kill this beast. I'll never use another brand of bass cabinet."
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Maybe Behringer will be cool now?
In any case, they're not going anywhere, I'll continue to look at them as just another brand of pro gear I can use if their product fits my need.
Well said.I avoid Behringer on principle.
They do not perform their own R&D (they just rip off other designs) so basically they are taking money away from companies that do. Once you take money away from the "real" companies, they will have less R&D money, i.e less cool products coming to market.
Behringer is like a leach on the audio industry. I could care less whether their stuff is any good - I won't buy it
Later
Rob
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
- Jul 11, 2006
- 433
- 12
- Disclosures
- Tech Director, dBm Pro Audio Services, New York
You'd swear with the amount of gear the Behringer floods the world with there must be warehouses stacked full all the broken gear they've had to exchange. Anybody know the location of these storage bunkers?
Uh yes, I do.
PRINCIPLE??? You purchasing is based on PRINCIPLE in the MUSIC INDUSTRY??? ROTFLMMFAO!!!
Dude, there has been, continues to be, and always will be thievery and plagarism of intellectual property and ideas in every industry, PARTICULARLY in the music industry! If there wasn't, we'd all be playing nothing but Fender basses and amps.
Damn, that was a good one! HAAAAAA!!!!!
I feel like a broken record in these threads, so this is the last time I'll be posting this-
To all of the "I won't buy Behringer because they steal all their stuff" people:
When you go to the doctor do you buy the generic prescription medicine or the brand name?
When you're at the drug store do you buy the Walgreens brand ibuprofen or do you buy Advil?
When you're grocery shopping, do you buy any of the "Store Brand" food as opposed to the name brand?
To all of the "I won't buy Behringer because they steal all their stuff" people:
When you go to the doctor do you buy the generic prescription medicine or the brand name?
When you're at the drug store do you buy the Walgreens brand ibuprofen or do you buy Advil?
When you're grocery shopping, do you buy any of the "Store Brand" food as opposed to the name brand?
Uh yes, I do.
PRINCIPLE??? You purchasing is based on PRINCIPLE in the MUSIC INDUSTRY??? ROTFLMMFAO!!!
Dude, there has been, continues to be, and always will be thievery and plagarism of intellectual property and ideas in every industry, PARTICULARLY in the music industry! If there wasn't, we'd all be playing nothing but Fender basses and amps.
Damn, that was a good one! HAAAAAA!!!!!
You got me backwards. I actually buy and use Behringer products. That is when they fit my need. I find they have good and courteous support. I find their products that I've chosen solid for my needs. I've been very happy. I have gear from other "expensive" brands - when they fit my needs. Sometimes I don't like the support I get from these expensive brands. You never know what support you'll get until you need it. Behringer does OK.
Do you really want to compare the music industry with the pharmaceutical industry? Pharms are patenting sequences of DNA that they "discover". That's like Roland patenting the Bb that they discovered. Pharms enjoy protection from the government -- it's illegal for me to go to Canada and buy a prescription at a lower price. While the patent is in effect, I have no other choice but to buy the potentially life saving drug from company X at whatever price they decide to sell it. If I don't buy a new piece of gear, I'll be disappointed but doubt I will die.
So your example, while simple on the surface, is really like comparing apples and oranges, IMHO.
The generic brands of prescription medicine are made by dissecting and exactly copying the name brand drug. It's reverse engineering, which is the same thing Behringer does.
You're changing the subject by bringing something about DNA sequences into the matter. I'm not quite sure what it has to do with anything. If it looks like apples to oranges it's because you're going off on a tangent.
I'm not defending or supporting Behringer, the drug companies, Walgreens, NASA, or anything like that. I'm not hear to point fingers, throw stones, etc.
I don't even _want_ people to answer my questions, just to think about them. There are a lot of people who are fast to rush into the whole "OMGz Behringer is thevieses!" routine that they probably aren't realizing that they support companies that do the same thing on a daily basis.
Take a step back, everyone, and examine _every_ one of your purchasing habits. That's all, just take a look. Is what you see consistent with your views on Behringer?
Again, don't answer. I really don't care. Just think about it.
I have one. Oddly not a bad sounding mic from the dynamic perspective, but no where near the gain of a real 58.
I have an Ultrabass 600. I bought it for some small smooth Jazz gigs and as a rehearsal rig, but it ultimately became relegated to the living room.
It is way louder than it looks, but my one major complaint is the patented "Dynamizer" technology. Basically a limiter you can't defeat. Makes me nuts when trying to play at rehearsal volume.
JKT
- Status
