Behringer/Sansamp ADI21: distortion and profiles/settings suggestions.

[pedrorolo]

I just got an ADI21 and am very positively surprised by it. I'd been mostly playing direct into an audio interface and it is now great to finally have tube emulation; both due to its warmth and to its inherent compression, which was a very nice surprise.

Though, I have found it harder than I expected to fiddle with it. I was not expecting much distortion; though found out that it is quite easy to dial settings that distort the sound and have been trying to handle it. (I wonder if the Sansamp ADI also has this issue.)

I've actually started by getting the Sansamp Paradriver manual and attempted to mimick its settings (attachment) ignoring the "drive" dial. I was then immediately hit by plenty of unwanted distortion and my first approach to deal with it was to dial down the "blend"; this though, felt unsatisfying, as I'd then loose part of the tube emulation juice. I've then moved to a different approach: I chose to proportionally lower all the eq knobs. This indeed reduces overdrive; though; it felt somewhat off; because it seems to interact in weird ways with the tube emulation; this started as a suspicion but became more clear when I realized that the eq curve is not flat when the "Blend" knob is enabled and the eq knobs are set flat (sound changes with mid sweep when full blend and flat eq). I've thus ended up lowering the output of my passive bass; what seems to work fine; and to be consistent with the idea of inherent tube compression and thus desirable reduced dynamic range; I am just a little unsure about whether this approach raises the noise floor levels. Do you know if?

Do you own any ADI or a paradriver? How do you handle this distortion? What do you think of my approach(es)? Do you have any suggestions on how could I handle this better? What are your usual profiles?

 

[Gearhead17]

I highly suggest you download the manual for whatever product you bought and start learning how to use it. You have the ADI21, correct? From my initial search that pedal is for acoustic guitars. I am sure it can be used for bass, but it may not be the best choice for you.

 

[andruca]

Not sure why would you expect the controls in your unit to behave like those on a different product from a different manufacturer. IME with a BDI21, it can get real close to my SansAmp RBI tone, but copying each pot position from one to the other is useless, renders nothing remotely alike. You simply have to know and understand what each control does/what to expect from each, and use your ears.

The ADI has a -20db pad switch, that's the first thing I'd look into with a device that has no drive/gain control.

 

[pedrorolo]

I highly suggest you download the manual for whatever product you bought and start learning how to use it. You have the ADI21, correct? From my initial search that pedal is for acoustic guitars. I am sure it can be used for bass, but it may not be the best choice for you.

I picked this instead of the bdi because i play fretless and the sweeapble mids are useful with it. I did of course read its manual, but also searched for alternative profiles on manuals of other products. This pedal is a copy of the sansamp acoustic di, which in the meantime has been replaced by the para di. That's why i also looked at their manuals.. the manual of my product says nothing about how should the distortion be controlled, and as i am using a volume-pot approach, i am wondering about whether any of you guys play with the volume pot dialed at a different value than 100%, and, if there is any trade offs for doing so, what are them?

 

[Gearhead17]

After looking at the manual in more detail, you are right. That manual is not too helpful. Still, don't bother reading the other manuals. They are not going to help you here since this product is not the same. Are you plugged into anything else other than: bass, ADI21, Audio Interface? If you are, disconnect all other items before trying out the tips I share below. Here are some tips:

1. Don't use/try the settings in the manual - Your gear is different than whatever sound those settings are trying to reproduce. It will lead to more frustration. This is good advice to follow for almost all gear. Plus, the Bass Guitar setting is telling you to heavily cut the mids. Seems like a jealous guitarist put that preset together....

2. The -20db pad is for the balanced output so it will likely help you lower the signal to your audio interface. Engage this switch, listen, turn it off, then listen. What do you hear?

3. Your bass - what are you playing and do you have active-EQ controls on it? If so, set those controls to the neutral (no boost or cut) settings. Keep the master volume all the way up.

4. Tone controls - Put at the 12 noon settings. Adjust ONE knob at a time, play, adjust again. What do you hear?

5. Blend - Start with the Blend all the way to the left (off), get the rest of the pedal working then experiment SLOWLY turning the Blend control up.

6. Level - Start with this at the 9am position while messing with the controls. SLOWLY bring this control up and see how it changes your sound

 

[el murdoque]

I think this is a tough one, even for Talkbass.

-You're using a $20 Behringer pedal
-Which is a Mic/Amp simulation for acoustic guitars
-You operate it with the manual of the product that followed the product your product is not an exact copy of, but based on.

And the results do not sound good enough to you?

 

[pedrorolo]

Keep the master volume all the way up.

Why?

 

[pedrorolo]

2. The -20db pad is for the balanced output so it will likely help you lower the signal to your audio interface. Engage this switch, listen, turn it off, then listen. What do you hear?

The distortion is not due to an overdriven output but due to an overdriven preamp. The audio interface shows no clipping. I've recently searched about active bases and realized that the issue I am describing is normal in active bases (which are bases with preamps). The suggested solution seems to be about reducing the input gain.

This thread is ending up being about this: The volume knob. Should it not be used at 100% when using a preamp? What are the tradeoffs regarding its use, noise and dynamic-range wise?

My gut feeling is that lowering the bass volume and raising the preamp gain will decrease the dynamic range; eventually compressing the signal, though it is not clear for me if this approach has a negative impact on what regards noise.

Anyway, your suggestion of using the preamp departing from a blank slate is a good one.

 

[Gearhead17]

Why?

I keep the master volume at full blast on my bass guitar simply so I don't have to remember what level this knob is at. I don't change it for songs or anything similar. Instead, I adjust the pedals and amp heads I am using to work with this signal level. I use all active basses too. I have not introduced additional noise doing this and it has served me well.

As far as gain staging, introducing noise, and so on, I suggest trying it out on your end and see what happens. I don't know the exact technical reasons here.

 

[crguti]

My suggestion is to get rid off that preamp and get one designed for bass.

 

[pedrorolo]

My suggestion is to get rid off that preamp and get one designed for bass.

I don't regret getting the adi instead of the bdi. It's a common practice amongst fretless and upright players. The main question ends up being about how to handle preamp input overdrive (which even occurs in onboard preamps) and the tradeoffs regarding the volume knob on the guitar.

 

[glennreid]

Yes I agree with your decision to get the ADI instead of the BDI
I needed the input to handle a high impedance pick up and I wasn’t sure whether I needed a preamp at all so I needed something entry level. Are use this preamp mostly as a direct box but as a bonus, it serves as a preamp booster.
I appreciate the feedback it will help me using this box

 

[bassbrad]

I have an ADI21 that works very well on my Dean Playmate EABC 5 with the passive piezo pickup but it does not play well with the hotter output of electric basses. You might try a pad or compressor to reduce the input below unity gain but you would then need to boost the signal after the ADI21.

 

[NoiseNinja]

If I was you and insisted on using the Behringer ADI21 I would get a pedal that allowed me to turn my signal down bellow unity gain to place before the preamp, could be one of the Behringer clones of the Boss graphic equalizer pedals, just using the volume control, cutting to a fitting level while leaving the EQ settings flat, or some kind of clean boost pedal that allows for turning the signal level down as well.

And yes, except for the fact that it lacks a gain knob, which is what is causing these issues that you are experiencing (but as said could be fixed by placing a pedal before the preamp that is able to control the input gain), it is indeed very close to the Tech 21 Paradriver, some people just likes to sound smart and superior without actually knowing what they talk about.

 

[staccatogrowl]

My suggestion is to get rid off that preamp and get one designed for bass.

I have an ADI that works very well on my Dean 5 with passive piezo pickup. .

The ADI (Acoustic DI /preamp) has a 1meg input that is designed for use with passive piezo pickups. So, in theory, it could be quite useful for electric or double bass equipped with piezos.

 

[BassFiesta]

My AdI21 sounds fine with a passive bass. But I don't turn it on, and just use it as a passive DI Box. I switch on the pedal/ preamp when using it for an acoustic guitar.

I don't even know if it needs a battery when used as a DI Box. (I have one in, just in case).