Double Bass Being a Better Section Member

[Tyler L]

Hello all, I need some general expertise. I've never played in an orchestral bass section before. I'm not a great double bassist, but I can abandon my self-doubt long enough to admit that I'm average/not especially terrible. I'd really like to be a stronger section member, though. Confidence is a major problem for me, but I know that knowledge and experience are the derivative.

I started typing slew of questions and realized that it pretty much boils down to divvying up my attention. Here are specific examples. Of course you have the self-check for intonation, bowings, tempo, rhythm, etc. Sometimes I find that I'm tensing up or my technique is off and so I focus on that. It should also be noted that some things I still can't play well (ie: the 4th movement of Beethoven 5 is still a struggle for my upcoming concert) and I am trying to focus on nailing tough passages and neglect the conductor. I'm quite guilty of initiating this problem as well, but sometimes I hear someone come in at the wrong time and that throws off my counting and then I booger up coming in. Sometimes I'll watch the principal (especially in the CO because he's a fantastic bassist) for bowings and I lose my spot in the music. Then there's following the conductor, who conducts ahead of the beat which I'm still trying to wrap my head around, especially regarding cues. Also, sometimes I'll hear someone play exceptionally well (or the opposite) and my attention will go there. I'm starting to sound like I have ADD and am in need of Ritalin. lol

All of that to ask, where should I as a green bass section member be focusing my attention so I can help be a stronger member in my section? Maybe a good follow-up question would be what should I be working on developing or honing as I get more established? Any general wisdom is always appreciated as well. Thank you all as usual!

 

[AGCurry]

From your post, it sounds like most of your issues arise from a) not using your ears, and b) not being familiar enough with the music.

If you know what the music is supposed to sound like, and how your part is supposed to fit in, then you need not rely on the conductor so much.

 

[Cory Palmer]

Work on breathing with the music/other musicians. Pay attention to how the woodwinds and brass are breathing for entrances, especially if you are playing with them. If I’m sitting in front of the brass section I can usually hear them inhaling and go with that. Pay attention to how your principal is breathing/moving with the music.

A lot of times when the group isn’t together it’s because people are paying attention to different things. Some people might be listening to the melody, some might be listening to an accompanimental figure, some might be trying to play exactly with the conductor, etc. Don’t be afraid to ask the principal what they are trying to play with. If they are leading well you might be able to figure out what they’re paying attention to without asking or just try breathing with them and follow their lead.

Also, don’t get too hung up on nailing everything technically. Try to figure out what needs to come out to make the music. Especially in Beethoven since the basses are usually doubling the cellos make sure the important harmonic notes are heard and that the important strong beats are heard.

Good luck!

 

[Tyler L]

If you know what the music is supposed to sound like, and how your part is supposed to fit in, then you need not rely on the conductor so much.

So dumb question: should I pretty much not pay attention to the conductor? Also, I try to do some active listening by listening to a good recording of the music with the bass part in front of me and kind of follow along as if I'm playing the part. During my active listening at home, should I pay more attention to the full orchestra than my part?

Work on breathing with the music/other musicians. Pay attention to how the woodwinds and brass are breathing for entrances, especially if you are playing with them. If I’m sitting in front of the brass section I can usually hear them inhaling and go with that. Pay attention to how your principal is breathing/moving with the music.

A lot of times when the group isn’t together it’s because people are paying attention to different things. Some people might be listening to the melody, some might be listening to an accompanimental figure, some might be trying to play exactly with the conductor, etc. Don’t be afraid to ask the principal what they are trying to play with. If they are leading well you might be able to figure out what they’re paying attention to without asking or just try breathing with them and follow their lead.

Also, don’t get too hung up on nailing everything technically. Try to figure out what needs to come out to make the music. Especially in Beethoven since the basses are usually doubling the cellos make sure the important harmonic notes are heard and that the important strong beats are heard.

Good luck!

Good stuff here! I'll shift my focus so I am more in tuned with the pulse and the breaths this evening. And I'll try relaxing and not being so caught up in nailing everything. When you mention the section splitting their focus, is there a prescribed "thing" I should be listening for (specific to the music, of course, like a cue or melody) or is it all pretty subjective, based on the principal's recommendation of what I should be listening for?

 

[Mark_T]

If you know how the music sounds and you know how the bass part fits in, you'll develop a sense of when you need to be looking up at the conductor (don't be afraid to mark these spots in your part) and when you can be looking at the page or looking around you - during these times you can rely on your ears and your own internal sense of rhythm.

Cory's advice is great, in general. One thing I like to think about, and which he touched on, is the role of the bass part at any given time. In most western Classical music, the bass part at any given time is doing some combination of:

1. Rhythmic accompaniment (like the boom-chuck-chuck for a waltz)
2. Harmonic underpinning (playing the root or dominant in the chords)
3. Linking the rhythm to the harmony (ie, doing 1 and 2 at the same time)
4. Melodic line (rarely, but it happens)
5. Punctuation (like in a concerto, when we have a big chord after the soloist did something awesome)

If the basses are playing the rhythmic accompaniment, the most important thing is to keep it steady. Intonation is important here, but don't fall out of rhythm trying to see if you're a few cents off - fix that in the practice room later. If the basses are playing long chords to drive the harmonies, eg, then intonation is more important; but again you still need to make sure you change chords in time. For a melodic line, you may have some freedom to push and pull tempi, but follow your section leader. For punctuation, you've got to watch the conductor - don't step on the soloist's toes, but be ready to jump when directed.

There are lots more things, but having some awareness of the function of the bass part helps you narrow your concentration.

 

[AGCurry]

If you know how the music sounds and you know how the bass part fits in, you'll develop a sense of when you need to be looking up at the conductor (don't be afraid to mark these spots in your part) and when you can be looking at the page or looking around you - during these times you can rely on your ears and your own internal sense of rhythm.

^this^

 

[dramatwist]

...a lot of good advice here... all I can add is simply "be confident..." you're there for a reason.

 

[Cory Palmer]

Good stuff here! I'll shift my focus so I am more in tuned with the pulse and the breaths this evening. And I'll try relaxing and not being so caught up in nailing everything. When you mention the section splitting their focus, is there a prescribed "thing" I should be listening for (specific to the music, of course, like a cue or melody) or is it all pretty subjective, based on the principal's recommendation of what I should be listening for?

Ideally the conductor should be guiding the orchestra towards who to listen to/who should be leading a section but a lot of conductors don’t explicitly say this so it’s usually up to the orchestra. There’s no exact prescribed way to do it unfortunately. It can vary group to group. In general if there’s doubt follow your principal. A big part of a principal’s job is if there is disagreement in the section the section members should be looking towards the principal to see where to place things.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

These are great tips from pro orchestral bassist Robert Oppelt.
Thanks Robert!

 

[Tyler L]

Casey, I really appreciate the list! Lots of good things to start implementing at rehearsals and concerts.

Update: this evening I was the only bassist who could play for CO. We worked on the Holberg Suite, which I've played just fine at other rehearsals, but was so nervous being the only member (and I really never get nervous) that I struggled to even count. Sweat was dripping and the conductor definitely called me out multiple times for screwing up counting. The ironic part is that I could play the self-proclaimed "hard parts" just fine because I was too busy focusing on them to also have the opportunity to be nervous. The "easy parts" and rests are where I struggled with second guessing counting. My crippling self-esteem will heal, but wow. Next time will hopefully be better.

 

[Andy Mopley]

It'll be alright on the night: how musicians cope with performance stress

Might help, Tyler?

 

[David Potts]

Hang in there,Tyler. There is a mountain of good advice above, too much to keep in your head IMO.

There is a good reason why, in many professional orchestras, a Tutti player with 10 years experience is paid more than a newbie. They have played so much of the repertoire, sometimes many times, and with so many conductors that they know the traps. Their heads are more up out of the music and they are watching and listening in all directions - to themselves, their stand partner, their section, other sections, soloists AND the conductor. They have found a way to hear themselves amongst all this this without annoying people around them. Their mental skins have been thickened in time to overcome self-doubt and they are comfortable with their ability.

You are at the start of this complex process. You are ON THE WAY !! My best advice is to work towards going into each rehearsal or piece with two things in mind, Intonation (always) and Something Else (this could be rythm, timing of entries, timing of pizzicatos, etc, etc). Sadly your brain can only really focus on two things at once IMO. Counting bars, counting yourself into entries not hanging on too long are always important and should quickly become second nature. As for the rest be alert, keep your ears and eyes open, note your mistakes for future practice, relax and enjoy the music.

Find a way to hear your sound without gluing your ear to the side of the neck. If you can't hear yourself no-one else can. And find your next entry notes without drawing too much attention.People around you will cut you some slack as you experiment (a) because they should remember what it was like when they started out, and (b) because they still make mistakes.

I was a nervous wreck at first, with copious amounts of perspiration and especially the first time I played beside my Principal. Then, about a year ago, he and I played a Brahms Symphony together and I felt that I was right back there years ago. He is 82 or 83 and I am 78 !!

In short, leave all your worries about technique at home, concentrate on the music and HAVE FUN.

Best wishes, DP

 

[Wasnex]

Hello all, I need some general expertise. I've never played in an orchestral bass section before. I'm not a great double bassist, but I can abandon my self-doubt long enough to admit that I'm average/not especially terrible. I'd really like to be a stronger section member, though. Confidence is a major problem for me, but I know that knowledge and experience are the derivative.

I started typing slew of questions and realized that it pretty much boils down to divvying up my attention. Here are specific examples. Of course you have the self-check for intonation, bowings, tempo, rhythm, etc. Sometimes I find that I'm tensing up or my technique is off and so I focus on that. It should also be noted that some things I still can't play well (ie: the 4th movement of Beethoven 5 is still a struggle for my upcoming concert) and I am trying to focus on nailing tough passages and neglect the conductor. I'm quite guilty of initiating this problem as well, but sometimes I hear someone come in at the wrong time and that throws off my counting and then I booger up coming in. Sometimes I'll watch the principal (especially in the CO because he's a fantastic bassist) for bowings and I lose my spot in the music. Then there's following the conductor, who conducts ahead of the beat which I'm still trying to wrap my head around, especially regarding cues. Also, sometimes I'll hear someone play exceptionally well (or the opposite) and my attention will go there. I'm starting to sound like I have ADD and am in need of Ritalin. lol

All of that to ask, where should I as a green bass section member be focusing my attention so I can help be a stronger member in my section? Maybe a good follow-up question would be what should I be working on developing or honing as I get more established? Any general wisdom is always appreciated as well. Thank you all as usual!

Bowing with the section was the part that I thought took the most discipline and focus. Ideally, the bowing should be agreed to, marked on your part, and played in before the performance. My belief is it gets easier with experience. I didn't have to worry about it as a professional because I played in concert bands and typically I was the only string bassist. This subject can be challenging as German and French bowers will naturally have some disagreement on which bowing patterns are best.

The next thing that is most section relevant is probably articulation and phrasing. The chosen articulation and phrasing comes from education and experience, but it's also likely the section leader and musical director/conductor will apply some interpretation and judgement as well. Like bowing, articulation and phrasing should be marked and worked out in advance if possible.

I think you have the wrong idea about the conductor being ahead of the beat. The conductor puts the ictus where he/she puts it, and each ensemble and section will interpret the ictus a bit differently. In my experience strings are typically more on top of the beat and brass players tend to lag a bit more, especially lower brass. Of course there are exceptions. I played for years with a tubaist who sort of overcompensated and played way on top of the beat. He was a fabulous layer, but it took me awhile to adjust to him.

You have to learn to breath with the ensemble and each section within the ensemble. Breathing basically means interpreting the difference between where the ictus is placed and when the note is sounded. Unfortunately the time duration is not fixed. In my experience actually breathing in conjunction with playing can sometimes help you with this. You use the feel of your breath leaving your body as sort of a measuring device.

Another observation is smaller ensembles tend to be more on top of the beat and larger ensembles to lag more; this is especially true if the players are using their ears instead of watching stick. If the ensemble is not on the stick, the conductor should throw a fit IMHO.

Breathing with the music is something you learn from ensemble experience, so take every opportunity to play in ensembles and keep your eye on the stick. If possible, review music scores and transcribe melody cues into passages where you don't play. These cues can give you opportunities to practice breathing with various sections and the ensemble.

IMHO you should know the music well enough so you can pretty much watch the conductor all the time. Even if you are really focused on the sheet music, you should try to keep the conductor in your peripheral vision. The more you do this, the better and faster you will learn to breath with the ensemble. Rather than reading each note, learn to read ahead by scanning phrases so you can give more attention to the conductor; especially when the attention is warranted. It's sort of like speed reading...your eyes don't read the individual words.

One thing I think you may need to do is learn different ways to manage and focus your attention. You can't worry about what others are doing, and you can't try to copy the principal in real time. You need to focus on playing the music properly to the greatest degree possible. In order to do this, you need to prepare better and make a distinction between the mental mindset you use when you are practicing, versus the mental mindset you use when performing. When you are performing, you need to be in the zone and not psyching yourself out worrying about myriad of things that are beyond your control. If you or someone else makes a mistake, immediately let it go and move on; because if you are thinking about a mistake, you are not in the zone, and you are not focused on performing to the best of your ability.

The mental aspect of being a performer is probably something you are going to have to work on quite a bit. It's very important that you learn to adopt the right mindset that allows you to relax during the performance so that you can be at your best.

Hopefully some of this is valuable. Although I did not play professionally in a string bass section, I did play in a low brass section. This freed me from worrying about synchronizing my bowing, but all the other section and ensemble skills were exactly the same as when I played in symphony orchestras when I was younger.

Good luck on your journey! In many ways I am envious .

 

[Tyler L]

There is so much great information here! Thank you all so much! I honestly can't even think of any follow-up questions right now. I'll study this thread (there's just so much I need to take in!) over the next few days and at Friday's rehearsal, I'll start implementing. It looks like for starters, 1) I need to take it slow and 2) I need to give myself some grace because there is a lot to playing in an orchestral bass section, especially opposed to the smaller gigs I'm used to playing. I've been struggling to get a good foothold for growth so this is just what I needed!

 

[Carl Hillman]

Hello all, I need some general expertise. I've never played in an orchestral bass section before. I'm not a great double bassist, but I can abandon my self-doubt long enough to admit that I'm average/not especially terrible. I'd really like to be a stronger section member, though. Confidence is a major problem for me, but I know that knowledge and experience are the derivative.

I started typing slew of questions and realized that it pretty much boils down to divvying up my attention. Here are specific examples. Of course you have the self-check for intonation, bowings, tempo, rhythm, etc. Sometimes I find that I'm tensing up or my technique is off and so I focus on that. It should also be noted that some things I still can't play well (ie: the 4th movement of Beethoven 5 is still a struggle for my upcoming concert) and I am trying to focus on nailing tough passages and neglect the conductor. I'm quite guilty of initiating this problem as well, but sometimes I hear someone come in at the wrong time and that throws off my counting and then I booger up coming in. Sometimes I'll watch the principal (especially in the CO because he's a fantastic bassist) for bowings and I lose my spot in the music. Then there's following the conductor, who conducts ahead of the beat which I'm still trying to wrap my head around, especially regarding cues. Also, sometimes I'll hear someone play exceptionally well (or the opposite) and my attention will go there. I'm starting to sound like I have ADD and am in need of Ritalin. lol

All of that to ask, where should I as a green bass section member be focusing my attention so I can help be a stronger member in my section? Maybe a good follow-up question would be what should I be working on developing or honing as I get more established? Any general wisdom is always appreciated as well. Thank you all as usual!

Here are some things to chew on from Mark Morton, via Jason Heath's blog:

Tips for Bass Section Playing from Mark Morton - Jason Heath's Double Bass Blog

 

[Cmmcm12345]

Adjust your music stand so the conductor is right above your page, and you can watch them with priphral vision while looking at the page. One of the reasons their movements are so dramatic, and you can quickly glance up at them when needed for cues.