Being Ignored By David at SGD Lutherie

[Dave W]

Did you read the other thread? Do you know the facts in the matter?

I did not read it. This thread was all the info that I was provided, and up until and including the above quote no other thread was mentioned or linked. The only facts that I know are what are in this thread.

Please keep in mind that I said nothing about you or your business, just that there are other ways of getting refunds. A month is a long time to wait for anything, let alone a year or more.

 

[TC2112]

But that wasn't the point. He was being obnoxious about the whole thing. He comes on here and makes a lot of drama and puffs himself up. More people sent me PMs saying I was right that posted in that thread saying he was right.

Like in this case he sent me one PM saying:



That was on the 6th. I had downloaded all my messages to a text file and emptied a lot of the inbox so I didn't see it.

Either way he's been paid back in full now.

I have no dog in this fight, and as being a small business owner myself, I can understand a few hundred dollars going out at the wrong time can be devastating.

However, I have a hard time with this comment. You kicked the guy after the situation was over. You had made him good, he thanked you for it, this case was closed; and you came on here and had to make sure we all knew he was being "obnoxious" and "puffing himself up."

You could have posted the first 2 paragraphs of your response without this last pot shot at the guy and still responded to the post you were referring to. I've heard nothing but good things about your products on here, and I wish you all the best. I just think this was unnecessary and unfair.

 

[pacojas]

This thread should be closed now right? Issue was resolved?

actually, the OP should delete this thread!!!

 

[bongomania]

I'm sorry, what line are you talking about?

Oy, what a mess. I started to write a long multi-quote response to clarify, but I'm pretty sure it would have been taken as "piling on".

You ask if I had any problems with the orders I placed... No, but that's because I had been told in advance by others that you had ongoing delays of several months, coping with a variety of issues like epoxy that won't cure, and were not likely to respond to emails--so I sent you my money fully accepting that situation. Indeed the second pickup did take several months, and there wasn't much communication from you, but I was not surprised or offended because again I knew that was par for the course. Kind of like ordering a Wal or Carl Thompson. I suspect that not everyone received the same advice as I received, nor ordered with the same pre-understanding.

At any rate, I think you and I have different ideas about what's obnoxious.

 

[Uncle Snake]

If keeping up with pm's is such a hassle then turn them off and just have people email you. Having the option to send you a pm makes that a viable option for communication. Period.

 

[Blue Blood]

Note to self: NEVER order anything from SGD Luthier.

 

[Mulebagger]

SGD,

I'm a small business carpenter for the last 20+ years. I've experienced super tight money flow at times and had to take a loss on a job or two to keep my reputation intact.

I've heard great things about your products.

Best of luck sorting out your business and keeping customers happy. In the future I'd do everything I could to keep a solid reputation and definitely not air laundry on a site like TB. It just doesn't look good for anyone involved.

It's disheartening to see threads like this and ones like the Dr. Bass threads, but I'm glad they are there to help educate consumers and the TB community.

 

[Dominic D]

Note to self: NEVER order anything from SGD Luthier.

This is exactly why SGD is unhappy with this thread. For the hundreds of orders that go without a problem, one or two complaints pop up and make a lot of noise. These problems are in no way the norm. SGD runs a very small business. It would be unfair to expect that he'd never run into any issues.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

You could have posted the first 2 paragraphs of your response without this last pot shot at the guy and still responded to the post you were referring to

You know, I'm a very mild mannered person. But if you go back to that thread he linked to, he was being very self righteous and self serving, whiteout telling the whole story. I don't have to be nice and hold my tongue over actions like that. It's clear from reading some of his comments on that thread that he as trying to ruin my reputation out of spite, just as he came on here today with this thread saying I was ignoring him.
Not answering one PM is not ignoring anyone. It's really not. But because people don't know the situation and didn't read the thread, they side with him.

I just got an email from someone who said:

Hey,

My name is Paul and I have been visiting TB for a bit and the one thing ive noticed about that place is how quickly bored morons will jump on someone. Most of the time they havent a clue as to what they are talking about, they are just yapping like mongrel dogs.

I want you to know that I completely see your side in all of this. Times are hard and now more than ever folks need patience when dealing with others.

I know this is really none of my business, but I wanted you to know I feel for ya man. You hang in there and keep doing what you are doing. $ 137.00 is not the end of the world.

have a great day and God bless you man.

Paul

This is from a total stranger. The first the around I got similar PMs from TB'ers.

Before you even get to the refund, the whole thing went like he wanted to wait to see if I could get my older style laser etched logos on the covers. But my previous cover supplier ran into problems and it's impossible to get parts from them, I had a box of 200 pad printed logo covers, and wasn't finding a laser etcher that could do that I wanted.

Several times I sent him a message saying I'm not having lucy with the laser etching, how about I just send you your order. He would replay, "no I want to wait and I'm not in a rush." I think it was some project bass he was working on, but don't recall.

Then I get a message saying "I sold the bass so I don't need the pickups any more". My feeling on that is you placed an order with me, and you selling the bass is none of my concern. But I told him I'd get a refund to him as soon as I could, but it wouldn't be right away. I did send him a third of it not too long after that.

Around this time I was still recovering from the bad epoxy fiasco where I had to remake about a dozen set of pickups. Running on the shoestring budget that I do, that nearly put me out of business. So I just was not in the poison to give a refund. But I'm very amicable to work out something with the customer.

What I WAS NOT doing was telling this guy he wasn't getting a refund. I sent hi a third as soon as I was able.

In the case of Jason, I dropped the ball when I was taking too long designing a custom preamp. I kept making changes to it, and have to do this work between filing orders, and trying to spend some time with my family. Then because money was so tight I had to take on some freelance graphic work at Sony Music. I was able to get bills paid, but had little time to fill orders. Jason has every reason to be upset with me, but I'm making it up to him, and hope to keep him as a customer because I like his custom basses. And he is very patient.

At the end of the day I'm a bass player who likes making pickups and is trying to make a living at it. It's a rough time to be a small business, and this has been taking it's toll on my family situation as well. But I like doing it, and feel I make some of the best pickups on the market, so I intend on sticking it out and making this work. Fingers crossed.

 

[FuzzBoxVoodoo]

We don't really know for sure how many orders go smoothly compared to how many have issues but one thing is for sure David doesn't handle problems in a way that makes you want to do business with him again,no matter how good the product is!
There are alot of people chiming in about what they would do and I appreciate the support and the few neg comments and sorry that I had to post here but it is obvious that it was the only way I was getting my refund.
I will be happy to close this post if that is the right thing to do.I don't think that I should delete it because it allows people to make up there own mind about the potential issues that could arise from buying from SGD.
Steve

 

[Steve]

Then because he wanted to wait while I was looking into getting the covers laser etched, his order money was long spent on keeping the business going.

Now that right there in my world is diversion / misappropriation of funds.

It ain't your money to do with as you please until the transaction is complete

Dr. Bass?

 

[Dominic D]

We don't really know for sure how many orders go smoothly compared to how many have issues but one thing is for sure David doesn't handle problems in a way that makes you want to do business with him again,no matter how good the product is!
There are alot of people chiming in about what they would do and I appreciate the support and the few neg comments and sorry that I had to post here but it is obvious that it was the only way I was getting my refund.
I will be happy to close this post if that is the right thing to do.I don't think that I should delete it because it allows people to make up there own mind about the potential issues that could arise from buying from SGD.
Steve

Just because you had a negative experience doesn't make it the norm. You are spouting this out like there's a very good chance this could happen to someone else. You may not choose to believe it but SGD does indeed do a lot of orders and most of them end positively. You only hear about the bad experiences because for some reason when people are mad they want everyone to know. Even though you've been fully refunded, you still feel the need to treat SGD like a bad guy. Get over yourself.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

You ask if I had any problems with the orders I placed... No, but that's because I had been told in advance by others that you had ongoing delays of several months, coping with a variety of issues like epoxy that won't cure, and were not likely to respond to emails--so I sent you my money fully accepting that situation. Indeed the second pickup did take several months, and there wasn't much communication from you, but I was not surprised or offended because again I knew that was par for the course. Kind of like ordering a Wal or Carl Thompson. I suspect that not everyone received the same advice as I received, nor ordered with the same pre-understanding.

Actually you would have likely gotten a speedy reply to an email. I'm actually working right now, but my computer is in the adjacent room, so I'm always checking emails and such.

I also obviously spend time on TalkBass, sometimes too much time. But I like to find problems people are having that I might have an answer for.

That was a bad period back then, but things are running pretty smoothly at the moment.

The main thing I want to say is I have very few problems with customers. You don't hear from most of the satisfied customers, so people read the one of two problems as indicative of me having bad business practices.

And still.. I'm currently having people email me with comments about this thread such as:

I was about to reply to the thread in your defense but realized that would only keep the tread visible and alive.

You seem to be a first class operator from what I have observed from afar and would never hesitate to do business with you.

And I thank everyone for their support. As soon as I get Jason's order filled I only have one outstanding custom order which is getting filed about the same time.

Then I have a nice clean slate, which is the way I like it.

As far as what I call obnoxious is telling half a story and stating it in a way to make the other party look bad.